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Block heater apparently not working

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by JimboK, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    The past two mornings I've started with ICE temps in the 60s as opposed to the normal 140s. I've started at different locations with different outlets and extension cords, so it's not the power supply. I'm confident it's not just an erroneous reading in Can-View; the car's behavior (i.e., prolonged warmup cycle) is consistent with a cold start. Best guess, therefore, is that the block heater itself isn't working.

    A PC search found three other reported instances of block heater failure. One was Evan's with his plug failures. The other two didn't work from the beginning, one from faulty installation and another after dealer installation, with no resolution reported in the thread.

    I've never pulled off with it plugged in (like others have reported ;) ), but I figure I can start with replacing the plug if need be. I can inspect whatever portion of the cord inside the car for obvious physical damage. Any further ideas for troubleshooting? Any theories on where exactly the problem might be? Has anyone heard of the heater element ever failing?
     
  2. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    You need a multi-meter with ohms function. Measure across the two flat prongs and wiggle the plug. You should see around 30 ohms. If you get nothing, check where the cord plugs into the block heater. It could have come off there. Next step is to check the cord - remove and use the ohms function to get a short from end to end on each line (but not to each other, of course). If the cord is fine, then the heater has failed. You can check it directly with the ohm meter, but it's kind of difficult to get to. ;)
     
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I just changed my EBH out about 5 minutes ago due to my concern that my repaired cord (hack job) wouldn't hold up well during the coming winter.

    I planned to just pull off the old cord and plug in the new one, but the orange part that plugs into the core had gotten very brittle and just broke off when I tried to unplug it.

    Sooo....I got to do the whole job. Took about 15-20 minutes this time, helps a LOT to know exactly where the core goes and the orientation of the orange plug (odd...about 4 O'Clock). I'd forgotten just how tight that space is to reach in there (very).

    Got it plugged in now, starting ICE temp was 114 and I'll check it in about an hour to make sure it's working properly.

    In any case, once I got the old plug in the house I was able to dig the old plug out in a few pieces. So if anyone needs a 'gently used' core without a cord let me know!
     
  4. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Thanks to both of you.

    David, I have a multimeter and already plan to check the resistance. But I wasn't sure what more I could do besides the plug-jiggling maneuver. Not having installed it myself, are you guys suggesting the cord detaches from the heater itself? Easily?

    Evan, I figure a replacement would be a lot easier than a first-time installation. No guessing as to which hole to use, where it's located, or where to route the cord.
     
  5. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    I think mine may be inop.

    First AM I saw a rise in MPG for the 1st 5 minutes as well as the 2nd five minutes. Really happy! The following days (2 weeks now) no such increase(s). Weather has been roughly the same AM temps.

    I'm going to do the ohms check. What about the grease? I used most of the tube and tossed the rest...could not enough grease cause failure? What can I use to replace the grease if I end up removing the element from the block? Not sure what to go ask for at the auto zone...
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ Oct 3 2007, 08:22 AM) [snapback]520535[/snapback]</div>
    I think the lube helps the EBH heat more efficiently, but it certainly isn't essential. When I removed my old one yesterday it was bone dry and had been working just fine (I replaced only b/c the cord was bad).



    Jimbo, I think the Knowledge Base has the install instructions now so you can see what all the pieces/parts look like.

    Here's the cord seperate and attached to the core, so you can see how and where it could pull off.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 3 2007, 09:28 AM) [snapback]520539[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks, Evan. I've seen pictures of the uninstalled parts. My concern was whether the cord can be unplugged at the heater once installed. I didn't know, for example, whether it clips or locks into place. It sounds like it doesn't.
     
  8. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    I didn't do the engineering for the block heater, but I suspect the grease is there to keep water out (it would tend to explode boil and that would scare the owner ;) ). An improvement would be to use "heat conductive grease" from an electronics store. Be warned, just looking at this stuff gets it all over you. It's white, usually, and is silicone grease with metal oxide powder mixed in. Harmless when it gets on your hands, but can stain cloths. If you don't have an electronics store handy, try a computer store. It is used under the CPU heatsink/fan assy.

    This block heater cord connection (at the heater) is probably the weak point. I suspect the heater gets quite warm due to poorer connection with the coolant than the immersion type (loop in coolant through expansion "frost plug"). So the extra temperature will cause more rapid corrosion at the plug-in point. I think the silicone heat conduction grease may reduce that problem, but probably wouldn't eliminate it entirely.

    Yes, I'd just reach up there and try to press the cord onto the heater. If it moves, that was your problem. If not, it could still be corroded as Evans was. It may be the "standard" cord used on many block heaters. If so, you only need a new cord. If not, a new block heater with cord.

    Note that the silicone dielectric grease that comes with the block heater is good for waterproofing the plug-in at the heater. Just squirt it or press it into the plug and it will keep water out of the connection.
     
    alekska likes this.
  9. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

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    What did you do to my baby? Do the ohm check. If nothing then you'll have to check the underneath and see if the plug is in the heater. If that's OK the next would be a bad cord at the plug. Let's see.

    The grease is to help span the gap between the metal heater casing and the block itself. It's not a super efficient heat transfer grease but it works for the purpose.

    Wayne
     
  10. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FireEngineer @ Oct 3 2007, 01:56 PM) [snapback]520699[/snapback]</div>
    I was going to ask you the same thing. It stopped working right after you left town. :p
     
  11. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    An update: Cold ICE again yesterday morning. No surprise, given the last few days' results. Last night when I got home (after dark), I plugged it in again in the now-fading hope the problem is transient. As the plug prongs went in, I noticed a brief flash suggesting a small spark and ... current flow! I tried to replicate the spark, repeatedly plugging it in while manipulating the position of the plug and the cord. Never did see the spark again, so I left it alone. This morning -- yeehaw! A warm ICE! :D Makes me believe the problem is in the cord near the plug or the plug itself. I'll still get the ohmmeter onto it this weekend, but hopefully that's all it is.
     
  12. philmcneal

    philmcneal Taxi!

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboK @ Oct 4 2007, 07:48 AM) [snapback]521146[/snapback]</div>

    sometimes it could be the socket itself, i've had to hit the "reset" switch on the wall plug itself then the Block heater works again, almost like the fuse shut it self off to protect itself... werid!
     
  13. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    Yes, I would suggest if your EBH ever doesn't work, check for blown breakers, or reset the GFC if you have it on one, before you assume the heater itself is bad (so speaks 25 years of Minnesota winter experience...).

    :)
     
  14. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Thanks for the suggestions, but it's not the socket, breaker, or GFC. From the original post:

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboK @ Oct 2 2007, 03:40 PM) [snapback]520460[/snapback]</div>
     
  15. Green Hokie

    Green Hokie Member

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    Jim, If you end up having to buy a new EBH and need help installing it, let me know. I'd be happy to help.
     
  16. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Green Hokie @ Oct 8 2007, 06:57 PM) [snapback]522824[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks, Peter, I appreciate that. Still haven't had time to troubleshoot yet ... hopefully next weekend.
     
  17. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    OK, finally got the ohmmeter on it. As suspected, the problem appears to be just back of the plug. Manipulating the "reinforced" (using the term loosely, given this experience) section of the cord showed several points of infinite resistance. Interestingly, it had a pretty wide range of motion where it showed 40 ohms (the alligator clip assembly I used to keep it attached during the jiggling probably added a few ohms). So it's off to Lowe's or Home Depot today to buy a replacement plug.

    Yesterday I took the car for a state inspection and tire rotation. While it was on the lift the shop staff let me poke around underneath. I reached up to make sure the cord was still plugged in (makes me appreciate all those who have done the blind installation themselves) and then I tried to unplug it in anticipation of possibly having to troubleshoot or replace the entire cord. I couldn't get much leverage in that tight space, and it wouldn't unplug. It's a moot point if my repair job works, but it makes me wonder: How would one unplug it? It seems almost as though Hobbit's approach from the top might be better. But then if you're going to all that trouble, it almost seems like just replacing the whole thing might be easier. But that gives rise to another question, mainly to Evan: How easy is it to get the old heater out?
     
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Jim,
    If you read my recent post about replacing my EBH it started as a project to replace just the cord...but the orange part of the plug that attaches to the core had gotten quite brittle and would not unplug...I had to rip it out destroying that part of the plug and thus had to remove the core too.

    It's definately best you didn't force things or you'd have been stuck buying a new EBH to get a new cord. IIRC when Wayne did your install he used that black electronic silicon or something and that might make removal a little easier, but I'd still be careful. Remember, also, that there's not enough room to remove the core with the orange plug still attached, so disassembly is a risky endeavor.
     
  19. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    A nice toasty ICE again this morning. :D I might have to spray paint the new plug though. The light gray stands out a bit against the black grill, black grill block foam, and black bra. My choices were light gray, orange, or yellow, so that was the least of all evils.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Oct 14 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]525434[/snapback]</div>
    I understood that. I was wondering how hard it was to get the core itself out. Just curiousity, now that mine's working.
     
  20. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimboK @ Oct 15 2007, 06:03 AM) [snapback]525784[/snapback]</div>
    Glad you got it working again.
    Getting the core out is easy...if the orange part isnt attached. But you can't get it out at all with the orange part still on...there's not enough room.