GM Volt in 2013

The people who leased them never thought they were problematic, range limited etc, evidenced by the fact they wanted to BUY them outright. Perhaps you borrowed that excuse from GM's spin machine?
The legislation labeled "over-exuberant" ... do you mean CA's attempt to slow down our over pollution of our planet? IT's all a point of prospective and it's apparent by the label, exactly what you mean.

 

This damn new board just eat my post. What is with the SHORT TIME OUTS !!!!!!

 

I have no time-outs. Post your experience here and you'll probably get help.

 

DAMN!!!! Easy there, tiger.

I am not a big fan of GM myself, for very different reasons than yours. Still, I see them moving towards a better product with every passing day. They will still build big tank SUV's as long as people buy them, I personally have no use for one. But they are working towards a better product, like the Volt. Like I said, have a little faith.

Actually, I formed my opinions from car magazines. Don't ask me which ones, that was nearly a decade ago. The legislation was over-exuberant, regardless of how good it's intentions were. The car companies were told they had to sell a certain number of electrics, so they were built. But not everyone was buying, that was the problem. You notice that little piece of legislation is no longer in effect, because it plain didn't work.

 

If your missing a post, try hitting "refresh". I was having the same problem. It doesn't seem to be updating like it should.

 

They have not given me one single shred of evidence that they are taking even a baby step forward. If they want my faith, they'll have to earn it. A first step would be to actually build one car that is not an environmental disaster.

You sound like Lucy, telling Charlie Brown that this time she won't pull the ball away. "Have faith!" Sorry friend. GM has done absolutely nothing to give me any reason to have faith in them. I don't believe in fairy tales, religion, or GM.

I'm driving an EV right now. (No, not while typing. ) And you want me to believe GM cannot build one before 2013?

 

You mean like all the PZEV models they produce (more, coincidentally than Toyota/Lexus/Scion)?

 

Well Daniel, I really hope they prove you wrong. I really do. GM has a lot on their plate right now with their financial situation, to even be considering an EV says a lot.

 

Do you also believe in the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, & Santa Claus? I must admit that there is a better chance of seeing a Volt than seeing all three of the above combined.

GM's financial situation is of their own doing. They excel at wasting money & time, not in building reliable cars. They either can't or won't build an internal combustion engine that doesn't burn oil so why should I believe they are going to be capable of building a functioning hybrid?

High School kids in shop class are building EVs that actually work so I'm not buying GM's BS.

 

How many AT-PZEV vehicles on the GM menu?
C/net think Toyota and Honda are doing a better job on producing clean running cars than GM.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4326-10863-6562766-1.html?tag=ss_thmb

 

You're right. There is a better chance of seeing the Volt than seeing those three.

I have worked in the auto industry for a long time, and I've seen all kinds of cars come to market that I was sure would never see the inside of a showroom. That being said, if GM doesn't build the Volt they will be in for a PR nightmare.

I never said GM's problems weren't their own fault. They most certainly are. It doesn't change the fact that they must focus on that now to be profitable later, as in profitable enough to build a niche vehicle like an EV. Once it comes to market, I guarantee the Corvette will outsell it, at least for a while. They will lose money on it in the beginning.

I built an EV in shop class when I was in high school. I know it can be done. It sure as shit wasn't something we could market to the general public, nor are the EV's that people build in their garages. That doesn't mean that they don't work, or that they aren't enjoyable. I could build all kinds of kit cars in my garage that would put an ear-to-ear grin on my face every time I drove it, but it certainly wouldn't be for everyone. It would be a car for me alone. In the Volt, GM has to build a car that will be reliable, quiet, comfortable, and usable on a day-to-day basis by the non-hobbyist, i.e. someone who doesn't know how it works. That is a tall order for any manufacturer.

 

Me too. I want to be wrong on this one.

I guess what I'm saying is that my distrust of GM is so great, based on their established history of demolition, obfuscation, and environmental degradation, that what they are doing now looks to me like PR, and that I will not believe the Volt until I can actually buy one. Until that time I expect them to either delay the project indefinitely because they "need" to include some still-undeveloped technology, or scrap it because they've "determined" that "nobody will buy it." As for the battery technology, they may well have every intention of funding battery research just so they can control the patents to keep better batteries off the market, as in the case of NiMH.

So in a way, you're right: I choose not to believe them. But I make that choice based on their past behavior: I consider them fully capable of carrying the Volt project to fruition and then deciding not to produce it after all because their market research tells them "people prefer SUVs."

The only thing that will convince me is when a car dealership will sell me a Volt.

And on a slightly different tangent, someone once posted a speculation that they might lease the battery pack, rather than selling it. So that in 3 years they could take it back and leave the buyers with a useless car. They learned their lesson with the EV-1: instead of having to crush whole cars, and lose the value of the car, they could just destroy the batteries and leave the drivers out the value of the car. I'm not sure I'd buy a car if the contract allowed them to do that.

I would put no vile ruse beyond them. I consider them capable of intentionally producing a battery that will fail, so they could claim, "We tried. We really did. But battery cars won't work because batteries don't last long enough."

When a person or company has been totally evil its entire life, and then it makes a pronouncement that it's changed its ways and will now do something good, I'm not ready to believe it until I see something concrete. Research is not good enough. And that's what I mean when I say I see no evidence.

 

Dan,

This strategy, if true, is doomed to failure as in that time frame the patent runs out on the "Large Format" NiMh battery which would be a reasonable drop-in replacement for the battery that came with the Volt (with a little techy work on the Battery Management System).


JeffD

 

Toyota/Lexus/Scion has 4 (including the Prius and Camry Hybrids). GM has 8 PZEV vehicles at last count.

 

Gladly..

http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/vsearch/cleansearch_result.asp?vehicletypeid=16

 

Hmmm. I'd like to respond to these one at a time, and hope that you are not resitant to a bit of direct experience to muddy the waters. In order:

Wrong, wrong, wrong, and almost right (depending on what "build" means in this case. If it means "develop" then wrong again) and wrong. Care to play again? Where, I wonder, did you get your info?

Indeed. And in 1998 they could build a battery car with 10-year-old technology that had 140 miles of range! But today, with all new battery chemistry and all kinds of neat new tech at their disposal, they're having a hell of a time coming up with a car that'll do 40 miles of battery range.

I'm totally embracing this. I think they MUST do this. The problem is, as spec'ed it can't be build for anywhere near the retail price they're discussing. What is so freaking amazing to me is that they already had the lead in all this technology. They spent untold million$ to piss that lead away by suing the state of CA. They then ragged on any company that decided to make Hybrids, and now suddenly, they're gonna jump back on that horse and become the industry leader again.

Oh, I totally want them to pull this off. It is just sad that they have to come from behind to do it. There are valid reasons that there are so many doubters in the crowd. I, personally, have more than enough reasons to not believe a damn thing they say - but I still want them to pull this off and turn the American auto industry around.