How many Prius owners are Vegetarians?

Many vegans (myself included) are totally aware that it is impossible to be perfect. The point is that we try our hardest to do what is right for ourselves, the animals, and the earth.

 

While I would agree with Pollan (and with you, if you are agreeing with him) that it is not possible to live a cruelty-free life in an industrial society, or maybe anywhere, I think that misses the point:

The livestock industry is so intensely, barbarically cruel, that if you refrain from patronizing it you greatly reduce your cruelty footprint.

Since the nutritional content of meat is one-tenth that of the feed the animals ate, any cruelty inherent in growing grain and other feed is multiplied ten-fold if you eat meat rather than eating the grain itself. Also, the environmental impact is multiplied ten-fold. And the political impact of agriculture's dependence on imported fossil fuel. And the carbon footprint of producing the grain. Etc., etc., etc.

Vegans are not living a cruelty-free life. But their cruelty footprint is one-tenth the size of the cruelty footprint of meat-eaters. And the dietary portion of their carbon footprint is one-tenth.

And FWIW, I don't think kangaroos are all that cute. They are fascinating. But not cute. Unless you compare them to cows. Cows are disgusting.

 

Maybe my use of cute was a little misleading. Anything to me that seems to be helpless and killed for use of their body as food have a "awww" connotation to it. If i saw a kangaroo, cow, or heck, a pig being killed with some of the means that are used, they're all cute.

I realize that I am not perfect, i don't ride my bike everywhere, i produce waste, and probably some animals may die due to the output of the tractors in the fields harvesting my beloved soy beans. But i sleep better at night knowing that i didn't ingest a dead cow who was born, raised, and then killed for the steak on my plate.

As long as we're talking about bumper stickers, i got one that says "Vegan - Because my body isn't a graveyard"

 

Eating animals wastes gas. I get much better mileage eating as a vegan!

 

I eat red meat, pork, fish and fowl on a fairly continuous basis. The beef and pork that I eat however is raised less than 400 yards from my back door and they are fed on grass primarily (except for winter like now and then they are getting hay) and only get antibiotics when absolutely necessary to cure an illness not to prevent. These animals are one of the joys of our existence especially when we know a baby is about to be born. We have been known to stay awake overnight in the summer to watch a baby calf be born.

I very rarely will buy store bought meat and then it is only fish and occasionally fowl since our chickens are free range egg layers.

The majority of the hay we use is grown in our fields where it grows without pesticides, fertilizers, and the like.

The family farm which used to be typical of the American rural life has been replaced by what is, in essence, a prison-style factory for animals to be born, grow as fast as possible, and then die in. Unfortunately, our political leaders (both left and right) have seen fit to endorse this style of agri-business under the guise of improved productivity but neglected to look at the true costs associated with it.

Here in Michigan, we have a fairly large deer herd and occasionally I will partake of venison also; but that brings up another point regarding meat eating. If we were to stop eating venison and hunting deer altogether, the deer herd population numbers would explode and we would then have increased car-deer accidents and increasing numbers of diseased deer wandering around in nature. I personally would not like to see these beautiful creatures wiped off the earth but I also wouldn't want to see them shot for no more reason than to keep their numbers down either.

Lastly, (for GigaTigga or anyone else implying that eating meat is bad and using biblical reference) what purpose in creation do bovine or swine serve if not food for humans? Surely, you are not seriously going to offer the point that wild bovine running around wild would be a good idea, are you? I have experienced car-deer crashes and would not look forward to car-bull crashes. I only use the creation point since you are referencing Scripture which would imply that you believe in something since you are using it to further your point.

patsparks - are roos in Oz pretty much equivalent to deer here in the US?

 

I'm generally agnostic, and was only bringing up biblical references because the question was raised "why did god...", not that i was using it as a point for myself, but as a counter point for his argument. Personally, i could really care less what the bible says about what we should eat, but its fun to bring it up when the "why did god put them here" argument comes up.

 

What does that mean, 'generally agnostic'? Not being mean spirited, just curious. Actually, many still believe that would should not eat of cloven/split hoofed (Swine, deer, etc) animals. Some religions still have 'laws' that forbid this practice (Judaisn and Islam come to mind). I seem to remember verses referring to man's dominion over all creation including plants and animals also. Thank you pointing it out though.

I do find it also humurous that someone who refers to themselves as generally agnostic would use a reference from a book they 'generally' don't believe in. Then to quote Seinfeld "not that there is anything wrong with that." It is not a comment on you personally but rather something I find interesting and humurous in discussions of this nature.

 

I'm not quite sure what "generally agnostic" means. Probably that i'm confused :-P

As i said before, i only used the bible quotes as an answer to a believer, who asked "why did god make animals out of meat if not to eat them". Just because I may not believe in the answer, doesn't mean that the question asker doesn't. If you asked me why you should buy a hybrid, i could tell you because they get 100 miles to the gallon, i don't have to believe it, but its still an answer

 

That is so funny, mind if I use that logic in a future meeting? I feel like I have been handed a great nugget of wisdom. This reminds me of the logic that my management here at work would prize since it would be an 'out of the box' thought.

 

Chicken?

I'd eat a vegan if they tasted like chicken. Or frog legs, for that matter. I'd suspect a well grazed vegan would go good with a nice mint sauce, in fact, and a nice chardonnay...

 

I think that was a compliment...lol

 

Many people say vegans taste better, smell better too!

 

It was. I think sometimes here at work they prize the thinking of persons that can answer questions with irrelevant answers and noncommittment over everything else. And those that do it best become supervisors.

Vegans taste better? Wouldn't know, but curious now.

I could probably do a vegan diet but it would take time to get used to and I would have to have some really good recipes. I won't sacrifice good taste for health. I know recipes exist but I don't happen to know of a good source.

 

I'm having line issues at work so I'll reply when i get home. I'm not against what you are saying Daniel and Gigga, I'm just pointing our some of the flaws of "typical" vegan thinking and making a point of how animals are very useful for proper range management and for additional calories. I do not like the idea of a CAFO any more than you guys do.

 

CAFO?

 

Might be alittle bit on the inappropriate side to discuss that one here...

 

I think CAFO is Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation, thats what acronymfinder.com says...they also say Confined Animal Feeding Operation

 

Our local Wise Woman Susun S Weed says she is a vegetarian -- "I'll eat anything that eats vegetables."

 

Agreed. Sorry, I have spent too much time in FHOP; forgot I wasn't there on this thread.

I would agree that these are bad. One of my firends lives near a Turkey Farm that uses this method and I am amazed to think that every day people buy turkeys from this place and you can clearly see from the road that the closest these animals get to being outdoors is what they see through the windows on the barns. It is extremely sad and I hope none of my money spent on turkey goes to these operations; we don't raise turkeys, too big and the chickens wouldn't fare so well. Thanks for the definition.