GM Smoke and Mirrors

...and there is the electric Corvette which is going to be assembled in France as the Evette.

 

He keeps saying it because he doesn't believe it himself and if he says it often enough that he will actually believe it. If Detroit 3 quality was superior to Toyota, they wouldn't get so angry at us for buying Toyotas. If Detroit 3 quality was superior to Toyota, we'd be buying Detroit 3 cars. If Detroit 3 quality was superior to Toyota, we wouldn't need the vast amounts of data that he's promised to provide but never gets around to.

 

In 2006 GM manufactured 3,095,109(sold 4,065,341) vehicle in the United States and Toyota manufactured 829,703(sold 2,542,525).

in 2006 GM manufactured 795,800 vehicles in Canada(and sold 418,176 in Canada), and Toyota manufactured 319,940(sold 195,780).

in 2006 GM manufactured 508,817 vehicles in Mexico(and sold 245,094), and Toyota manufactured 34,660(and sold 60,088).

Ratio of manufactured to sold in the US

GM........76.13%
Toyota..32.63%

GM----------377,624 exported to US from Canada
Toyota------124,160 exported to US from Canada

GM..............263,723 exported to US
Toyota........(25,428)

 

You always want to point out the midgets and giants. GM is the largest seller of vehicles in Mexico, so it would make sense to havve some plants there. I am not justifying all of it, but it certainly does not erase the $58,000,000,000 automotive trade deficit the United States had with Japan in 2006 or Toyota's share of $33,000,000,000.

 

Where was that link again?

 

It is all there:

http://www.autonews.com/section/DATACENTER

These are facts not legends and myths. I am amazed every time I go into a toyota showroom what I hear from the salespeople. They do believe what they say until you ask them for some documentation, then deer-in-the-headlights.

 

That's "autonews". Don't you have anything with a dot gov? Or maybe dot edu?

Or how about from the same sources as previous, only supporting your "statistics"?

edmunds.com
nytimes.com
theautochannel.com

Or how about from several independent sources all supporting your "statistics"?

If your autonews is facts, not myths, then edmunds, nytimes and theautochannel are also facts not myths. If edmunds, nytimes and theautochannel are myths then so is autonews. Unless you can offers some justification that autonews is fact and all others are myths other than that autonews supports your viewpoint and the rest don't.

 

Why would autonews be biased. do you think they are falsifying the data? It is known in the industry as the "bible" by both foreign and domestice manufacturers and dealers. I will find it at some other sites. How about this site:

http://www.jama.org/statistics/motorvehicle/exports/mv_exports_year.htm

Check out the number of Japanese imports vs exports in 2006:
exports: 5,966,672 imports: 280,995

Japanese market in 2006: 5,739,506

The Japanese produced 11,484,233 vehicles in 2006 and more than half were exported, most to the united states.

Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mercedes, Hyundai, etc would have sold 832,168 vehicles instead of the 8,000,000+ they sold in this market if the percentage of imports was equal.

Still think its fair? How much better would our economy be if GM, Ford and Chrylser would have sold 7,000,000 vehicles? how about $20,000 unit on average. How about another $140,000,000,000 circulating through the US economy? None of this includes all of the tier 2 and 3 suppliers which would be manufacturing the parts.

GM

 

I've got four industry links versus your one. Why should I believe the four are myth and yours the only truth? Because you say so?

Where does autonews get it's statistics? Isn't there a dot gov or dot edu with supporting statistics? Sorry, but I'll trust a gov or edu over an industry blurb.

And because I say so doesn' t cut it.

 

Those links don't dispute anything I am saying. Does GM outsource in Mexico, yes, but you are loosing site of the really big picture, the flow of money. The auto related trade deficit with Japan was $58,000,000,000 last year alone. www.census.gov Check it out for yourself. Do you think those numbers are lying? Do you think it is GM, Ford and Chrylser importing vehicles and parts from Japan?

 

Which models are made in Mexico and Canada by Toyota and what % of that model production are in those countries?

 

Tacoma trucks in Mexico and corolla, matrix and the lexus rx330/350 in canada. Not all of them, but a portion.
Tacoma 34,666 in mexico and 170,121 in the US.
Corolla 162,812 in Canada and 199,518 in the US
Matrix 79,588 in Canada and 36,100 in the US
Lexus rx 330/350 77,540 in canada and none in the US.

 

So lets see, according to you Toyota manufactured 354,606 of it's NA production in Mexico and Canada. And 829,703 of it's NA production in the US.

Thus a total of 1,184,309 for 2006 NA production according to you and your sources.

Yet on a public viewable source (not a paid subscription where seemingly only you have acces to) Toyota lists 2006 NA production as 1,364,565. This is substantially different from your listed numbers.
http://www.pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2007010356633

Seems like you are bending the numbers to suite your purpose, as usual I might add.

 

Okay, since you want to continually deflect "outsourcing" to "trade deficit" I'll repeat what has been said before ad infinitum nauseum.

If GM made a car the Japanese wanted, they'd buy it. The fact your PR department has no influence with the Japanese buying public is not the fault of the Japanese.

GM doesn't make a car *I* want to buy. Toyota does. I bought it.

That's the free market for you. You're pissed because the Japanese are beating the big 3 at their own game. Detroit got lazy, overconfident and shortsighted. PR/advertising and blocking legislation to keep the status quo doesn't win the race.

(BTW *I* would have bought the EV1 but you wouldn't sell me one. I had to buy a Saturn SC2 coupe instead. When I replaced that car I went to Saturn first. No EV1 for sale. Or EV2 either. I test drove an Ion. I went to GM first. You had your chance. You had NOTHING I wanted to drive. I bought a Prius.)

This is tedious and a waste of time. And you're a whiner.

I think I'll put you on ignore now.

 

Godiva I am not questioning your decision to buy your Prius. I do disagree with you about selling vehicles in Japan, the numbers I quoted were all manufacturers, not just the detroit 3. Do you really think if given an opportunity the Japanese would not want to own a few more BMW's, VW's Cadillac's Chevys etc?

Omly 280,000 imports sold in Japan, that is about the same number of Mazdas sold in the US.

 

A lot of people here argue with that troll and it's rather fascinating to watch. You're right, arguing with him is a waste of time. I think that he enjoys getting people all riled up and arguing with him. Mental masturbation and he really gets off on it.

 

Yep. especially when his math skills are exposed Funny he has no reply for my last post here.

 

So i am to believe a Toyota press release instead of automotive news?

http://www.toyota.com/about/our_business/at_a_glance/our_numbers/index.html

This link does not even agree with your other Toyota link, unless toyota built only 160,000 vehicles in Canada and Mexico.

Yet another group of numbers from toyota, this claims 1,550,000 in NA
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/about_toyota/manufacturing/worldwide.html

 

Actually read the table below the map. It will list the plant and production for 2006 where total production was rounded 1,515,000 vehciles with 50% or so of Nummi production going to GM. Thus 1,515,000 - (50% of 370 k) = 1,330,000 in rounded numbers. Which is amzingly enough the same as the number from the press release, if you keep the rounding in mind.

I'm sorry you do not understand numbers or reading of information well, but please do not make it our problem.

Again you are wrong and can't admit it.

Nice try, I notice you keep ducking diving when someone calls you on your math and sources. Suddenly you avoid the strong "numbers" you swore by, but resort to diversion tactics. You must be in politics or something.

 

So rounding is ok as long as the number are yours and not mine and we should believe a toyota website because it is more objective than automotive news?
I am sure most people understand the point I am trying to make. Toyota imported more than a million vehicles in 2006. That is a fact. Toyota runs a larger trade deficit with the United States than any other single company in the world, but still markets themselves as moving us (the citizens of the United States) forward. If you don't see any contradiction there you never will.