Lutz: New fuel rules will hike GM vehicle prices by an average $6,000

Highlander Hybrid achieves CAFE 35 MPG and if you equip it similarly, it doesn't cost $6,000 more than the non-hybrid. The Highlander Hybrid starts at $33,700 and it is available now in the showroom - 12 years before the law requires it.

 

i guess that ends their rants about the "premium" that we hybrid owners supposedly pay...

 

Did I miss something? I swear it said 26/24/25.

 

That's the adjusted 2008 MPG numbers. The unadjusted number is 35.1911 MPG [see UNRND COMP (EPA) column].

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/epadata/08data.zip

 

If you are using the unrnd comp numbers, I want some of what you are smoking. J/K.

No way I am getting even close to 33 MPG on highway on my Honda s2k. Or even 26 mpg average. That is with very relaxed driving style. Now, if you can somehow adjust those numbers to make my s2k get that mileage... [And no, I cannot only drive downhill in netural for the rest of the car's life]. So I don't understand why you are using those numbers for.

 

Yes... But why did seawolf use that number if no one can get that numbers consistantly by most drivers? Isn't that stretching the truth?

If using Seawolf's logic (from GM's perspective), then the Tahoe hybrid is a great SUV because it gets 28.2 mpg average and still can tow over 6000 lbs. Do I believe this crap, no? At least GM did not say that, they said it will get 21 mpg and do all those crap no one does with it.

 

Okay, I humbly bow to you. Every snide, cute, punny, or witty remark I'm going to post, I find you've beaten me to it. sigh.

 

Not me! EPA is using UNRND number to calculate NHTSA CAFE MPG)

Here is a quote from the recently passed 35 MPG CAFE law HR6-8 (page8):

"The Secretary of Transportation, after consultation with the Secretary of Energy and the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, shall prescribe separate average fuel economy standards..."

Over at NHTSA's site, they explained how they get the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) number. Since I wasn't sure if EPA use the NHTSA MPG or the unadjusted numbers (for emission calculation), I compared the 2007 CAFE number and manually calculated from the EPA spreadsheet below.​

From DOT web site, here is the PDF with the breakdown of CAFE by the year. It lists Honda 2007 CAFE as 39.9 MPG.​

From the 2007 EPA spreadsheet, if you take the highest fuel economy of each model variance and average up the UNRND numbers, you get 39.98 MPG!​

Honda S2000: 26.0621
Honda Civic Hybrid: 58.8362
Honda Accord 2.4L Manual: 33.91
Honda Fit 1.5 Manual: 41.1418
--------------------------------------
Honda Light Passenger CAFE: 39.98​

I did the same to Toyota but 2007 data was missing Scion XA and XB. Any way, the number I got was pretty close. When I get more time, I'll list out and do the actual calculation.​

So this is the proof that EPA use UNRND column to calculate CAFE (unless someone can proof me wrong ).

 

Yes, it is very misleading. What's even worse? There is a loophole with Ethanol.

A quote from wikipedia:

"Fuel economy calculation for alternative fuel vehicles multiplies the actual fuel used by a "Fuel Content" Factor of 0.15 as an incentive to develop alternative fuel vehicles. Dual-fuel vehicles, such as E85 capable models, are taken as the average of this alternative fuel rating and its gasoline rate. Thus a 15 mpg dual-fuel E85 capable vehicle would be rated as 40 mpg for CAFE purposes, in spite of the fact that less than one percent of the fuel used in E85 capable vehicles is actually E85."

 

Reading the article was like being in a time machine where the ancient quote of "What is good for GM is good for the country" was stated. Every now and then you get a glimpse of the GM boardroom thinking.

Style vs Substance. This battle has been won at GM by the S........ crowd.

 

And I'm supposed to start believing Lutz NOW because....?

 

Except our Prius' supposed premium is suposedly under $6,000. But GM's will be more? I wonder if Lutz was telling a lie. Were his lips moving? How much is the premium between a standard Camry, versus a Hummer? ... or a Camry versus a Vette? Etc. Where's all Lutz's hub-bub concern about THOSE premiums?

 

You seem to be very confused Dipper. What people are trying to tell you is that the 2008 EPA numbers on the window sticker and the numbers used for CAFE calculations are completely different. CAFE calculations are still based on the original formula from the 70's. So even if we do get to 35 mpg CAFE, the real average fuel consumption would only be about 26 mpg. It may be stretching the truth but the guilty party is the federal government.

This doesn't even take into account that per the new 35mpg CAFE regulations vehicles are seperated into classes and each class has a seperate requirement. However, the classes are never averaged so the fleet from a company that only made large cars could average significantly less than 35 mpg.