Toyota to use lithium batteries in next generation of hybrids

A lot of companies are bringing out EV / Plugin electric cars. I am aware of only one company actually collecting real-world data from real people globally with their needs and balancing out the range vs. price etc... That company is Toyota.

While others are trying to prove that the spec on paper can be build and committing to build a car by the reaction / emotion at car shows is not too wise.

A lot of companies make up these concepts without actually intended to put them into production. Sure, their specs are high, looks nice and make a great advertisement to make themselves green. Tell us about the price when they are actually selling.

A lot of people also discredit HSD by focusing on the green image. HSD is so popular not because the image. But because it actually delivers the hybrid premium features and advantages.

 

i hope
toyota wil bring lion batteries to the 2004-2010 priusII hsd
so you can upgrade your NMH to LION and maybe even a plugin

 

As many of us have experienced with our laptop computers, Li-ion batteries have a tendency to lose their capacity over time. A two-year old battery will often have lost half of it's original capacity. I don't really see anyone claiming that they have solved that problem, which is a big one unless the cost of the batteries comes down dramatically. It's not like with Toyota's NIMH batteries where the problem can be avoided by keeping the state of charge within limits.

 

Ford has some plug-in Escapes rolling around in some test-fleets for electric companies, so Toyota is not the only one.

 

These problems have been completely solved by companies like Altair and A123 using nanotech electrodes which are much more immune to calender or cycle induced dendrimer formation (the reason for old-skool lithium battery ageing). The Altair cells can go 15,000 cycles of fast (10 minute) 100% discharge with no apparent ageing or loss of capacity.

You won't see these batteries emerging in your laptops or cell phones any time soon, as they are more suited to automotive use, not small appliances (ie they are oriented for power and safety, not light weight and run time).

 

I thought Ford is doing with it's Fleet customers only in US.

Toyota is letting CA residents do the actual driving with the study under UCLA(?). Smiliar study is going on in France, etc...

 

Lion in 2008 models? its alrady 2008!!

you mean more like 2010 models?

 

A year ago there was speculation that Toyota would introduce lithium batteries in the 2009 model year, which would hit the streets near the end of 2008. A few folks saw the 2008 date and mis-stated that as the 2008 model year. But apparently the program has been pushed back a year (2010 model year, actual date near the end of 2009) and there's still no guarantee of that.

What's certain is that at some time in the not-too-distant future NiMH batteries will be replaced by something better. Very possibly lithium. Maybe even safe LiFePO. Some day ultracaps may replace batteries. Those have no intrinsic limitations on charge and discharge rates, or operating temperatures, or problems with overheating. They do have the risks associated with explosive discharge in the event of a failure of the dialectric or of the external control circuitry. There are always risks when you store a large amount of energy in a small space, whether it be gasoline, batteries, or capacitors.

What's much less certain is when a PHEV will become available to consumers and who will be the first to bring one to market. I'm hoping it's Honda or Toyota. GM is making all the noise, but Toyota might possibly beat them to it without the noise.

 

The dramatic advantages of LiFePO as demonstrated by Altair and A123 etc are what has prompted Toyota to revise their lithium rollout schedule completely.

If they had continued with the planned cobalt based lithium from partners Panasonic EV, they would have been at a major disadvantage to their LiFePO using rivals. The whole R&D department at Toyota is now in a mad scramble to try to catch up with LiFePO technology.

As for when Toyota will use lithium-ion in any vehicle, it's worth noting that they have already been doing it for years with the Japan-market only Vitz mild-hybrid.

 

I don't think they put all their eggs in the cobalt based chemistry. Toyota was also working with Manganese based chemistry from the Fuji Heavy Industry.

 

I'm glad to hear this. I don't mind waiting a year or two for Toyota to bring lithium to cars for the U.S., if it means using a vastly safer chemistry. Tesla better start delivering Roadsters to customers before their battery chemistry becomes completely obsolete!

 

Please see this thread:
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/27863-lithium-shortage.html

All due respect to Wayne's figures but he's wrong. My reply is at the end of the thread.

 

And several others pointed out that your article is in error because it ignores huge lithium reserves in Australia and Chile.

 

I beg to differ. Please download the MRI report.

Australian reserves are of the silicate compound of Li. USGS Mineral Yearbook will confirm this. Only the carbonate form may be used in Li batteries.

Chilean reserves are quoted directly from the USGS survey so there is no miscalculation there.

Furthermore, Tahil figures in Ultimately Recoverable Reserves. USGS Reserves Base still takes into account economics while Tahil calculates the geological availability. This inflates the figure to a nebulous 58 MT, in stark contrast to Reserves Base of 6 MT of carbonate.

With the conservative projections in the MRI Report, this is still insufficient.

If you've a bone to pick with errors in the report, do contact the Institute.

From the figures provided, replacing 11% of global car production with Li powered EVs/hybrids in 2004 would have required DOUBLE the production capacity that year.

Further inspection reveals that the quoted production figure is of silicate and carbonate form. The doubling of capacity is therefore a very conservative estimate, as was the estimation of needed Li battery output.