1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

How does Prius compare to conventional cars in driving dynamics?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Yury, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. Yury

    Yury New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    21
    0
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Hi All

    I do now own a Prius, but I have been toying with the idea recently. I have a reasonable grip on what this car is, but I still have unanswered questions.

    Btw, I realize that these questions may have answers somewhere in the site. Hovewer I did read/search the site for a day or two, so there was some effort there :)

    Ok, perhaps the most important question at this point that cannot be answered by reading specs...In terms of throttle response can this car be compared to any conventional non-hybrids...Say, if I get behind the wheel I might say "this car feels like my old Civic or this or that..." Just a ballpark, and I am not talking about gunnning the engine, but rather conservative city/highway driving.

    What'd be especially useful if I could relate the experience to this cars I have own or driven often (I am excluding high powered V6 ones for obvious reasons):

    - 05 Pontiac Vibe
    - 02 Nissan Sentra
    - 93 Honda Sivic Si (127 hp 1.6 liter engine)
    - 03 Corolla
    - (just for laughs) 2003 For Ranger (2.3 140 hp engine).

    Thanks a lot :)
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It 'feels' a bit different.
    Acceleration is unusual...it starts moving quite responsively upon depressing the accelerator...but since it's under electric power only for that first second there's no ICE sound so it's a little unnerving initially. But when you look to the side you'll see that you got off the line faster than the conventional cars. Once the ICE spins up it feels quite normal....except that there's no shifting. I remember that being a little weird at first...now I HATE when cars shift gears...that smooth seamless acceleration is just sweet and nice.

    Under hard acceleration and hill climbing you'll hear a bit higher rpm and ICE noise than one typically does with a conv. vehicle, but once you get used to it you realize it's normal and that that's just how the car is designed.

    Braking is generally pretty normal, IMO. I think the Prius rates a little below average for the class for stopping distance (ie longer stopping distances than average), but it's still decent. Also the sensitive foot can feel the change over from regenerative braking to friction braking that occurs at 7mph and that can feel a bit odd and it can even feel like they give away completely if you've got a really light foot.

    Most people feel the handling is not great, I find it to be pretty average...a bit more body roll than I'd like. The BT stiffening plate helped that some and there are other aftermarket products that are available. But I rarely drive aggressively any more so it's not worth the money for that stuff to me.

    Does that answer most of your concerns? BTW, Toyota and several nationwide car rental places now rent the Prius...you could rent one for a weekend and take it through its paces to see if it will suit you.
     
  3. Yury

    Yury New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    21
    0
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    thank you for the reply.

    I am pretty tolerant to body roll, I can also deal with different sound levels and no gear shifts, so that's ok.

    Ok, Let's suppose I drive with ear plugs and don't care about curve handling, but I have a mix of city and highway with moderate grades. Would I, overall, feel deprived of power compared to any of the cars I listed (or any other popular car for that matter) ?

    Btw, I found one company that rents a Prius, and as a matter of fact, if I get more serious I will rent it probably for the full week of my commute and weekend activites, this will give me a decent idea of the mileage I would get in my specific scenario and probably answer a lot of other questions. But that would cost me money so I want to know as much as I can beforehands.
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Oh no, you'll never feel for a lack of power under those conditions...it'll pull steep tough mountain grades like a champ.
     
  5. Yury

    Yury New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    21
    0
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    interesting. can't say I understand it though, the ICE itself is pretty weak in hp, i presume the assist makes a difference. how easy it is to run out of assist on a moderate few miles long grade ?
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    If you're really pushing it going over the I70 to the Eisenhower tunnel you could run out of battery and be fairly weak with just the ICE...but I'll tell you I saw plenty of Prii last month while we were skiing in colorado most with ski racks that were doing just fine over the pass.

    In most real world conditions you'll have more than adequate power for anything you need..short of racing.
     
  7. Yury

    Yury New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    21
    0
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    hm...makes me think :)

    I will throw in one more question, ok?

    How much of a fuel mileage difference is there between 55 mph cruising and 65 mph?

    (I don't think I will be able to learn to stay under the limit :) )
     
  8. KTPhil

    KTPhil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    1,379
    20
    0
    The CVT lets the engine run in its peak power band even at moderate speeds, so pickup is excellent for its class.

    Some (myself included) have noticed a throttle lag at about 20 mph under the following conditions: you let off the gas to coast down to about 20, then boot it. This happens on my way to work when I sloe to make a hard right onto a freeway onramp. With typical LA tailgaters, this is actually a bother. I found putting it in B kept the ICE spinning and it improved the response under that condition. My theiry is that the ICE is stopped and the motor system is running backwards (recharge braking), and the inertia must be overcome before it accelerates. Cause is a guess bit the effect ir noticable if you are being tailgated.

    Lastly, MPG drops with speed like any other small engined car. The drop from 55 to 65 isn't all that bad, but above that you pay a real penalty.
     
  9. Yury

    Yury New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    21
    0
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    thanks a lot for your responces, guys.
     
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    At 55mph, no wind, flat road, warm weather, no AC you should see close to 60mpg.
    At 65 it'll drop to around 55mpg.
     
  11. donee

    donee New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    2,956
    197
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Hi Yury,

    You may know that the Vibe is a GM version of the Toyota Matrix, and has the same rear suspesion as the Prius and Corrola. The Vibe and Matrix are assembled in the same factory.

    But the tires are allot smaller on the Prius than are typically delivered on a Vibe.

    Additionally, the Prius is made with very high strength steels, so its a little springy in the rear end because there is less steel, and its springy steel. This is probably nothing new to a person who came from driving a mini van. At high side loads, the stock car can act squirely, consequently.

    There are add on fixes for this that cost less than 200 dollars that many of us have made. The squirlyness is dramatically effected not only by the add-on stiffening plates, but also by alignment and tire size people also report. With a BT Tech plate, the car handles similar to the other front-wheel cars you mentioned.

    I agree with the other comments about accelleration. Its a unique experience, and setting up the tranny (by throttle manipulation)for a quick accelleration takes a little experience. The car can be very quick from a 10 mph running start. Or it can take a while for the MG1 to spool down and reverse. The first time you accidentally setup the tranny it will supprise you how quick it goes, versus other times.
     
  12. donee

    donee New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    2,956
    197
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    The time-outs on this board are WAAAAYYY too short - and that results in dupes....
     
  13. Yury

    Yury New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    21
    0
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    so, how do you set up the tranny?
     
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,933
    16,155
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Oh once you catch the Prius bug, you'll stay under the limit ;).

    Well I don't know how the 407 or the 401 is but on the west coast, it's easy to stay at the limit.

    I'd say a difference between the low 4s L/100km to high 4s. At 70mph, I get 5.1L/100km (on the US highways). Stick to the Canadian limits of 90km/h and I can get the low-mid 4s with cruise control and a flat highway trip with little wind.

    I've only driven an 03 Corolla (and a 97 Civic DX ugh). I'd say it's like the Corolla in pickup but in passing, it'll be faster mostly because it doesn't have to downshift. You just press and it goes.

    The thing is, don't worry about the engine revving up and making noise. Yes it does sorta attract attention and people think you're some punk kid but if you need the power, then ask the car for it!

    The engine hp does look low but it's 110hp net and about 115lb-ft net with a full battery (on a dyno). Note that may not seem like much but when you realise that the Prius is 1,330kg (vs. the Corolla at 1,150kg for the LE model), you'll see that the elec. motors play a big role in torque production.

    On a mountain, if you're going < 100km/h, the battery is never used. You'll just see the engine powering the wheel and the engine powering the elec. motors which power the wheel. Any faster and the battery has to assist and that's when you start seeing the battery deplete.

    Handling is decent but note that for 2008, all Canadian Prius versions are based on the Touring Edition with the larger 16" alloys (195/55R16), "euro-tuned" suspension and larger rear spoiler. The rental might have a 2007 instead which will have the stock suspension ,15" alloys (185/65R15) and standard spoiler. People have said they prefer the Touring when they've driven both versions so keep that in mind when you rent one and see if it's an 07 or an 08.

    I have an 05. It's decent. Like efusco said, there is a fair bit of body roll if you push it. The tyres are built for economy (Goodyear Integrity) so if you wish, you may upgrade the tyres at start to something better. I'm currently running on Nokian WRs.

    Note that with this car, you'll learn that mileage is quite sensitive to a variety of conditions - temperature, driving style, length of trip, number of people on board (at least in my case cause we have lotsa hills), tyre pressure and so forth. You'll learn to maximise each of those eventually.
     
  15. Yury

    Yury New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    21
    0
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Tideland Prius, excellent info, thank you.

    195/55/15 is a decent wheel size...i thing I had it on my Vibe, looked pretty good.

    however if i go ahead, i will be getting a used 07 most likely.

    btw, if it's better than a 03 corolla it's pretty nice. I drove that car for a couple of days, as far as compact 4 bangers go it felt pretty decent.
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,886
    8,187
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Hi Yuri, and welcome to PC. It's hard to compare the Prius to other cars, but easy to compare SIMILAR cars. For example, our hybrid Lexus SUV is also made as a non-hybrid / traditional internal combustion engine. From our experience, when we compared the two and stomped on the gas of both SUV's with its two electric motors, the hybrid not only felt more powerful than the standard V6, it felt just as powerful as the V8 ... plus it's quieter, besides better MPG. You really need to test drive the Prius for yourself. That way, YOU will know how it compares to other models that you've driven.
     
  17. Yury

    Yury New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    21
    0
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    thank you. yes, i am leaning towards renting for a few days....that way i can also compare the mileage in my typical use....if i could get twice less than my V6 Accord (23.5 mpg in winter) it would be a big selling point.
     
  18. KTPhil

    KTPhil Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    1,379
    20
    0
    Winter mpg drops in a Prius like it does for most caars, or maybe a little more. Living in Toronto you may see big drops. Renting at this time of year is a good idea if this is a primary consideration.
     
  19. ny biker

    ny biker Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    463
    11
    0
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius
    Model:
    XLE
    FWIW, on highway trips this winter I've gotten 50 mpg, driving 60-70 mph on a 300-mile trip. For my 4-mile trips to work, which are the worst possible for high gas mileage, I'm getting about 36-37 mpg. That's with no special modifications (no engine block heater or grill blocking) and very little attention paid to tire pressure. It is cold here but not too cold (temps in the 30s and 40s mostly).
     
  20. BlackPri08

    BlackPri08 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    50
    0
    0
    Location:
    central Indiana
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Here is one thing that has really impressed me with my Prius. To preface this, I drove a 95 Honda Civic for seven years. A great, economical, worry free car. What I find is that when I'm on the interstate at 55-60 mph, and I need to pass someone, get away from a gravel dribbling dump truck, or whatever, the Prius has all kinds of accelaration. At these speeds, the Civic wouldn't have a lot left in terms of accelaration. I assume that the Prius does because the ICE is heavily used at these speeds typically, and the electric motor is there to add that extra boost. That may not be the correct technical explanation, but no doubt that you have that extra power and accelaration over what you'd have with a conventional 4 cyl.

    I think you'll be surprised at the performance of the Prius.