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Final Numbers are in.....

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by malorn, Feb 14, 2008.

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  1. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I have posted this so many times.

    Toyota built 937,862 in the United States
    Ford built 2,042,463 in the United States
    Chrysler built 1,664,782 in the United States
    GM built 2,780,071 in the United States
    (all numbers through 12/22/07) automotive news.

    So much for your argument.
     
    #41 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
  2. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I am sure the numbers in automotive news are more biased than those at toyota.com. Also of course the numbers at toyota.com count manufacturing in Canada and Mexico. I wonder why there is no link at toyota.com to number of vehicles imported and jobs those imports create in Japan.
    You will also notice there is never any mention of gross sales or gross income in the United States or North America, making it very difficult to figure out the exact value of the Toyota imports.
     
    #42 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
  3. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    i guess japanese are not stupid enough to buy garbage
     
    #43 DaveinOlyWA, Feb 14, 2008
  4. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    So Dave, tell me how Toyota is helping the US economy? Then please let me know how the $53,000,000,000 automotive trade deficit the US has with Japan is good for the US economy, and finally please tell me how Toyota is in no way, shape or form, responsible for the majority of that deficit. come to think of it, isnt that about 1,000,000,000 a week or about what the US is spending in Iraq a week?
     
    #44 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
  5. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    dont know and dont really care... i have enough on my plate looking after my family and I...

    you said it yourself, the us government doesnt even spend our money here, why should we?
     
    #45 DaveinOlyWA, Feb 14, 2008
  6. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    I understand, I have a family myself, but this balance of payments problem will be crippling to them some day. When you do have some time, check it our for yourself, I think you will find I am right on the money.

    Have a great day!

    Here is a link to get you started:
    http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/current_press_release/exh18.pdf
     
    #46 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
  7. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    It's been available for years on the same site linked in my post. Here's the latest:

    http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/ir/library/annual/pdf/2007/p03_05.pdf

    If you were asked to submit a package for consideration as a potential Toyota dealer candidate, would you apply? You might think about it while your accountant whips the financial statement into shape to show some, any, blue sky prior to factory buyout.
     
    #47 amped, Feb 14, 2008
  8. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    That tells me what the value of toyota imports into the United States is? I don't think so. I almost bought a toyota store but decided against it for a couple of reasons, I could not get over the balance of payments factor and the blue sky is getting ot the point where the growth curve has to continue or there would be trouble. This is even more pronounced buying Lexus stores.
     
    #48 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
  9. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Actually, a Toyota open point is, and always has been, free...if you're good enough to qualify.

    You're right about closed points. Few if any are sold any longer and those that are routinely get the most blue sky of any franchise. Most are passed down to the next generation.
     
    #49 amped, Feb 14, 2008
  10. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    There are no "open" toyota points, and the blue sky has even turned off the public companies.
     
    #50 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
  11. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    Here's what I don't get. Why are these costs & job losses the fault of Toyota's success and not the fault of the US automakers greed and failure of leadership? The US automakers opened the door for the Japanese to enter the market by making an inferior and misdirected product. How is that Toyota's fault?

    In my mind its right up there with blaming the high cost and poor quality of American vehicles on the people who build them. Toyota and others have demonstrated that American workers are perfectly capable of producing a high quality product at a fair cost when coupled with good design, management and quality control. How is it the fault of the guy who spent 30 years on the line, that GM execs decided not to plan ahead for the retirement costs they knew they would eventually have to pay him? The execs have made their millions and moved on, and left us all holding the bag.

    Rob
     
    #51 miscrms, Feb 14, 2008
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    that is where you are wrong. i am successful in an industry that has been for the most part, outsourced to another country...

    the fact of the matter is... if you follow a loser and act like a loser, you will be a loser.

    the US will be around long after you and i are gone... now if they continue to act like losers, they will go down and deservedly so... a trade imbalance will not be the cause of it either
     
    #52 DaveinOlyWA, Feb 14, 2008
  13. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    There are, they just aren't revealed to the dealer body until the application stage.

    Meanwhile, PMA registration penetration is analyzed for pump-in until the point can be justified to the dealer body (and their attorneys). Case in point is the recently closed point of Wilsonville, OR that had fierce competition among applicants including Lithia Auto Group, a publicly traded company.
     
    #53 amped, Feb 14, 2008
  14. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    So these are toyota dealers that have just quit or gone out of business? Why would a toyota dealer not sell the franchise and realize the blue sky?
     
    #54 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
  15. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Oh, different definitions in use here!

    In Toyota jargon, an open point is a primary market area with defined geographical boundaries that has never had a dealership to serve it's customers. The Toyotas registered in an open point all come from pump-in from a closed point(s), or another PMA with an assigned dealership.

    When pump-in reaches critical mass, enough to support another dealership retailing on average 1,300 new, the site studies begin and if pump-ins continue to trend up for several years, the open point is announced and the application process begins.

    The whole process can take years because it must be thoroughly justified to the dealer body that it will not harm their sales, service and parts potential.
     
    #55 amped, Feb 14, 2008
  16. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Makes more sense now, thank you. You work for Toyota or a dealership?
     
    #56 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
  17. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    If the US automakers want to compete ,they should fire their incompetent CEOs and directors.
    They are the ones who sunk the US auto industry by trying to push poorly made gas guzzlers.
    With the ridiculous amounts of money they are paid they could hire the CEOS of Toyota Nissan Honda .
    I just googled "Toyota CEO" .
    Hiroshi Okuda makes $ 900,000
    Why not offer him 20 times that to run GM?
     
    #57 mojo, Feb 14, 2008
  18. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    There is more to this problem than just bad decisions. It is fact that GM, Ford and Chrysler have made many bad decsions over the last 30 years. However, the destruction is not happening in a vacuum, there is a system to this. The first industries targeted by the Japanese were small seemingly meaningless industries which were very small in the scheme of the US economy, think transistor radios and toys. After these industires were largely moved overseas the move was to larger ticket industries like televisions and stereos. Now those industries are gone and the move is on to very large ticket industries. Obviously, I am simplifying and generalizing but it is hard to argue with it. Roughly the same plan is being followed by the Chinese but the potential size of the import problem is overwhelming our economy.

    Is there another country in the world where this would happen or even could happen, not on the scale it is happening. The deficit is approachng 10% of our entire economy, and is much more than that when services are taken out of the equation.
    Getting back to the original point, the Detroit three(no longer the big 3) have made some terrible decisions, but there is so much disinformation about what helps our economy, and what is american merchandise and what is not. Again, every time I enter a toyota showroom and inquire about he economic impact I hear almost the same thing," Toyotas are mad in the united States and GM and Fords are made in Mexico." The facts prove otherwise.
    This economic downward cycle is affecting all of our lives, schools and governments and roads, and charities etc.
     
    #58 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
  19. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    And in Australia GM pushes itself as an Australian car maker. This was at the same time it was selling Toyotas with the General Motors Holden lion on the grill and currently sells South Korean Daewoo with the same badge.
    I believe GM in the US sell Daewoo badged as domestic cars also.

    So maybe the master has taught the apprentice well.
     
    #59 patsparks, Feb 14, 2008
  20. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    You are right in 2007, GM sold 67,000 Daewoos out of more than 3.8 million sold. Less than 2%.
     
    #60 malorn, Feb 14, 2008
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