First lithium-powered electric car on PriusChat?

The tzero, eBox, Phoenix SUT, and Tesla all run on lithium batteries. Perhaps others as well. But I believe (???) I will be the first person on PriusChat to own and drive a lithium-powered electric car:

My Zap Xebra SD has been at the dealership in Grants Pass, OR, having a lithium-iron-phosphate (LiFePO -- not Li-Ion) battery pack installed. I think it's scheduled to be picked up by the shipper today, so I might possibly have it this weekend, or otherwise early next week.

The dealer test-drove it over 40 miles (driving conservatively) in tests, and said that while its acceleration is less than what it had with the after-market 84-volt AGM lead battery pack, it's better than the Xebras with stock (72-volt) packs.

It also now has a powerful heater and an ammeter, so I'll be able to monitor how much current I'm drawing. It still has no power steering, no power brakes, no air conditioning, and no gas tank. It only goes 40 mph, but 27 days out of 30 it's all the car I need, and is the most fun to drive of any car I've ever owned.

 

The battery comes from China and came with its own charger and BMS. Zap had nothing to do with it. It's strictly after-market. My Zap dealer installed it, but it's not Zap-promoted or Zap-approved.

This is not the first Xebra to get this pack, but it's the first one my dealer has installed. He spent a considerable amount of time testing the configuration before settling on how he wanted it. He's not charging me for all that testing time because he wanted a chance to install one, play with it, and figure out how to do it, in the hopes that other Xebra owners will want to go this route. Lots of folks have had problems with the lead batteries and Zap's configuration, and if mine proves to be durable, others may decide it's worth the rather high cost.

Or maybe Toyota will come out with a series PHEV and put Zap out of business. My Zap dealer actually thinks that GM will build the Volt, and that that will be the end of Zap. (Though the Xebra, even with a LiFePO pack, will still be a lot cheaper.)

 

Acceleration is better than stock, but less than my previous system, because the new pack is nominal 72 volts, actual 80 volts, but my previous (after-market) pack was 84 volts. Lower voltage means less oomph to the motor. The stock system is 72 volts.

The new pack is 500 pounds less than the old one. Or I think around 200 pounds. Nominal 72 volts, 100 ah. (The old one was 84 volts, 140 ah, so I've lost volts and ah but also weight.) Retail price of the pack with BMS and charger is $6,500. Installation is $500 if you don't want to install yourself.

They claim extremely long life of 6 to 7 years and 2,000 cycles. With a range of 40 miles per charge, that's 80,000 miles. If true, the battery will outlast the car several times over.

Battery importer is EWI Distribution. I'm taking a chance with a new product. But I have a lot of confidence in my Xebra dealer, who did this install. (Grants Pass EV) Some guys buy a vintage Corvette at my age and restore it. I bought a Xebra and had it souped up with a better battery pack, and now I've ditched that pack and had the lithium pack installed. Lotsa bucks, but this car is ten times as fun as a Prius, though it only goes one tenth as far at less than half the speed.

Back in 2004, we Prius drivers thought we were pioneers. With probably fewer than half a dozen lithium-equipped Xebras on the road, I think I can claim to be a real pioneer. And while lots of folks are waiting for the Volt, I'm driving my all-electric car. Well, I was before I sent it in, and I will again once it gets back.

 

Your link goes to their list of threads, and I don't see the one you are referring to. How about a link to the actual thread?

I googled Thundersky, and what I see are lithium ion batteries. My new pack is not lithium ion. It is lithium-iron-phosphate. Totally different chemistry. Your warnings about Thundersky may be valid, but they are not relevant, as this is clearly not what I have.

 

Your link still goes to their list of thread titles, not to one specific thread.

I do not know the BMS specs. I suggest you contact EWI, using the link in my earlier post, if you want specifics. I just had my Xebra dealer install the battery, based on his representations of it, and my trust in this particular dealer.

I did that. I got a page that only mentions Li-Ion. Anyway, I don't think my new pack is from Thundersky, though I cannot say for sure as I don't have the car back yet. Their web site says their "Lithium Ion Power Battery" is 1/10 the cost of other lithium batteries. This appears to rule out the possibility of my pack being theirs, as mine was very expensive. I really think we are talking about two different batteries.

I would, however, be interested to read the thread you keep taking about, but I cannot find it.

 

Good news. I had thought the shipper was going to pick up my car at the dealership over the weekend, but apparently I misunderstood. It was picked up this afternoon (Tuesday) and it should arrive here tomorrow evening or Thursday morning. I'm excited to be getting it back.

 

The ecological effect of transportation is a legitimate concern. But it applies to everything we buy that is not grown or produced locally. In my defense I offer that, unlike the purchase of a Prius (which is transported half-way around the world for us to drive) this really is a pioneering effort: I will be providing real-world testing of a new technology that has the potential to bring BEVs closer to reality, and I am creating public exposure to an EV, which increases public awareness of the concept. The old lead batteries were not working out for me, so the battery transplant was needed if I was to continue to drive the Xebra as my main car.

The car was delivered to me on a trailer pulled by a large pickup (probably diesel) along with two other Xebras being delivered to other people. It was returned to the dealer the same way, but on a one-Xebra trailer, and will probably come back to me again on a one-Xebra trailer. 300 miles each way, each trip. Yes, that's a lot of fuel. But there are Prius drivers who burn a lot more fuel in a year than what I do, including the fuel used to deliver my Xebra. And while driving the Xebra I am using no fossil fuel at all, as my electricity comes from the Bonneville dam, plus a tiny amount from wind.

I think it would be more legitimate to criticize my frequent air travel for fun vacations, than my shipping my Xebra to OR and back to have the lead batteries replaced with lithium. I have no intention of quitting travel, but I cannot justify it. I think the pioneering effort on LiFePO batteries in a BEV justifies the use of the fuel.

And to be honest, while I do think the Xebra justifies itself by simply being on the roads showing people that EVs can provide a fair amount of our transportation needs, my personal motivation has more to do with my passion for driving electric.

In the end, anyone who drives a car rather than riding a bicycle is responsible for environmental degradation, as the decision to live farther than we can walk or bicycle to work or school is a choice we all make. If I was not scared of seeing the results, it would be interesting to see what my carbon footprint is, broken down by home heating/cooling, daily transportation (amortizing the transportation of the Xebra over its useful life), vacation travel, and the purchase of food and consumer goods transported from other areas. I suspect that transporting the Xebra would be insignificant compared to the other items.

Your question is legitimate, but I think this was justified.

 

So it turns out the dealer misunderstood the shipper. My Xebra was picked up, but the shipper had to giver her driver 48 hours off. It won't get here until Friday. Bummer!

 

Now the shipper is saying definitely late morning on Saturday. :frusty:

 

An early report on performance of my Xebra with the new LiFePO4 lithium battery pack:

This pack is actually a downgrade from my old one in terms of capacity. My old battery pack was 700 pounds of lead-acid batteries rated at 140 amp-hours and nominally 84 volts but actually a bit over 90 volts when fully charged. But the new pack, if it works as promised, will be more reliable, have a longer life both in number of charge/recharge cycles and calendar duration, and will be virtually unaffected by temperature, at least within the range experienced in Spokane. It also weighs about 500 pounds less. But it only has 100 amp-hours at a nominal 72 volts, actually 80 volts when fully-charged.

The new pack has a higher impedance than the old one had, so the voltage drops more under load. This, and the lower absolute voltages, mean that the Xebra has less acceleration than it had before, and this is disappointing. It also has a lower top speed. But the lighter weight partially makes up for the reduced capacity in terms of distance.

My top speed has dropped from 40 mph to 35 mph, which is the speed limit on most of the roads here, so is an acceptable top speed. But where it formerly accelerated briskly to 35, and would then more slow make it to 40, it now accelerates briskly to 25 mph, acceptably to 30 mph, but only very sluggishly to 35 mph. This is disappointing because for the first time, drivers wanting to go at the speed limit will be held back if they are behind me, and, also for the first time, my Xebra is giving out the impression that EVs are slow. I am not happy about that.

Otherwise, the car is still acceptable as a city run-about.

Every car gets better mileage if driven gently on flat ground than if driven with a lead foot in hilly terrain. So a comprehensive range test needs several runs, under different conditions. I always used to state my range as 45 miles, based on a long drive when the batteries were new, in warm weather (lead batteries do best in warm but not hot weather) and driving very gently.

Yesterday I drove about 30 miles to full discharge. But I was driving with a lead foot and intentionally drove up a hill of 500-foot elevation. Thus I give 30 mies as a worst-case scenario. One day soon I'll drive gently on fairly level ground. I'm expecting to get around 40 miles under those conditions.

The Xebra is still acceptable. And since the old lead batteries were giving out, my options were very limited. This will continue to be my main car, but is only a stopgap until I can get a "real" electric car. So many promised cars on the horizon; so few actual EVs available today. For my needs, the Xebra is the only thing you can buy today for less than $60,000 (the cost of a used Rav4EV).