youtube video, comparing an EV to the prius

so the battery pack from the rav4 EV is really special and can take voltage drops to 10volt and not like a normal battery when its depleted to 10 volt a lot will brake down.

mm anyone try to open up and find out if they can be reproduced
and then not company wise but private wise so there are no patent isues? ( only for private use )

 

The biggest problem I have with pure EV cars is what's going to happen to our North-east American Electric grib when everyone goes home and plugs their car in ... The black out of whatever it was a few years ago comes to mind... Or at least a major brown out for awhile as the surge amps take a hit.
Has anyone even considered this event/problem? Or what? we have infinite supply of electricity?!

 

All I can tell you is the result - I can't make the "normal" call or the "break down" call. The batteries just keep working and working far beyond what Toyota ever dreamed would happen. Nobody expected these batteries to be so robust.

I'm afraid these could not be produced by a shade-tree battery producer (do they exist?) The Chemistry is no mystery - there's just nobody who can legally make them for this purpose any longer. And that INCLUDES for our cars, by the way. There are no replacement batteries for the Ravs. I'm often asked how much replacement batteries cost. Nobody knows since nobody has replaced them. And nobody CAN replace them.

 

The answer to your question lies in a new technology being developed "V2G", which stands for "Vehicle-to-Grid", it's going to be a 2 way transfer of power, from the Grid to the Vehicle, or from the Vehicle to the Grid. The electric utility is going to control when the car dumps its power to the grid, and when the battery charges. By allowing them control, they can regulate the demand on the grid for charging, and also help them with peak demand (the V to G part), thus avoiding building additional power plants. If you google V2G you will find some interesting developments... of course this all hinges on the avilability of EV's, and the battery technology for them, which as you can see has a problem at the moment. New battery technologys such as Lithium-ion-phosphate (google "A123 systems") will probably leapfrog the pure LI batterys, in time, possibly avoiding the patent problems.

mitch

 

Yeah - actually I forgot about that... yeah still semi-development stage though. *shrug* Only time will tell. The "best made plans of mice and men" - is only the best until you implement the plan - then nothing seems as you planned. *heh*
Been a software programmer for too long I think... My programs worked the best while I was drunk and compiling on my development computer... but as soon as it hits the production computers - *core dump* ***blue screen of death*** You fail! But sometimes u hit it right... heh. *cross our fingers*

 

If that's your biggest problem, then you're in luck. EVs *will* make the grid more stable and more efficient. Most charging WILL be done at night because of financial incentives and plain practicality (most cars are parked at night, so why not charge them then?). Today the oil industry is the single biggest consumer of electricity!

For a list of reasons not to like EVs, please see this: http://evnut.com/docs/evs-wont_wok.doc And please note item #34.

 

If the 12 volt battery you are referring to is your average automotive lead acid "starting battery", then you're right - those aren't designed for deep cycle. They are designed to deliver a lot of cranking amps in a short period of time with the discharge being a small percent of the overall state of charge of the battery.

But "deep cycle" batteries are different. They are designed to be much more robust with respect to deep discharge and charging cycles. There's a good explanation here -
Deep Cycle Battery FAQ

It looks like that description is mostly for lead acid batteries. I'm not sure how the comparison translates over to comparing the Pruis NiMH battery to the Rav4 EV battery. (If anyone has a link with an explanation - please share.) My guess is that there is a design trade-off there as well. The Toyota engineers have designed the control system in the Prius to protect the battery from deep cycling as much as possible. By the nature of its application, the Rav4 EV battery (or any EV battery for that matter) has to be deep cycle.

So, when I listen to Doug listing his complaints, I'm really hearing only one - that is - that the Prius is not an EV. Once you accept the fact that the Prius gets all of its energy from gasoline, then you wouldn't want it to behave the way Doug says it should in his video. Because it gets all its energy from gasoline, the Prius should try to take power directly from the gas engine whenever it can (to avoid the inefficiencies associated with the energy conversions), and to store only excess energy in the battery for use later when it makes sense from an engine efficiency standpoint (including shutting down the engine when it makes sense). This is pretty much what it does.

Of course, if you put a plug on it, so you can get energy from somewhere other than the gasoline, then the story changes. I'm eagerly awaiting that story.

 

Well said. All of it. Maybe Doug could hire you as is writer during the strike.

I am compelled to mention here how often I hear that there's no reason for EVs now that the new "hybrid technology of the Prius" has rendered EVs obsolete. Here you have an EV with limitless range, and that you don't have to plug in! Seriously, this is what my local Toyota dealer told me (same dealer where I bought the EV and the Prius). They believe this stuff, they really do. Sometimes it really is enough to make me rant like Doug.

 

so with deep cycle battery's ( that can not deliver a lot of fast current ) and a controller between the battery's and the elec motor with capacitors inside to provide acceleration power ( what the deep cycle battery's can not provide ) then you have something like the rav4 EV ?
mmmm maybe

 

Darelldd, please keep ranting.
You are an inspiration like no other on this site. Somehow we all need to get you into a decision-making high-ranking position of power to make the changes needed.
I quote and point to your website as often as I direct nay-sayers here to PriusChat. Continue being obnoxious. continue being an idiot. I love it and have learned much. I WILL be heading to the Toyota dealer to request that plug-in.

Again, thanks and keep us posted on all the EV dealings out there.

And if you let this go to yer head...well...more power to ya, ha, ha.

 

Your RAV4 batteries are Panasonic large format NiMh which can take the abuse of full charge-discharge cycles. I wish that they were available for our Prii so that we could have plug-in hybrids. The mini-NiMh batteries in the Prius would not survive for the life of the car if used the way the video producer would like. In 2015 I'll be able to get large format NiMh batteries and build (preferably buy) a practical EV (possibly sooner if Lion gets real).

JeffD

 

2015? can you explain that

 

damm
by then there is no need for it ( i hope ) because of more then plenty plug-in cars on the road ( i hope again )

 

Chevron
Sue to keep your patents from being used in EV's, and then run your super bowel - type ads on how you are striving to help the environment. Ya gota love it.

 

Not likely. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? without the high density batteries, there will be no EV's. That's why we are hoping that newer technologies such as Nickel Phosphate (A123 systems) can be produced and "leapfrog" NiMH before 2014-15, and avoid the patent issue.
mitch

 

Whoa now... this is a first! Is it my birthday?!

Head is so fat I'll never fit through the office door to go to lunch! My skills are not in the political area. I do what I can to spread the word and to dispell the never-ending negativity that surrounds EVs. I leave the politics to the guys who have a knack for that sort of thing.

Thanks for the nice words. I'm not worthy.

 

All true. "Technologically advanced" is not a term I'd use to describe Doug.

By then, NiMh should be about as desirable as pba is today. We should be well beyond what they were using in these cars 12 years ago!

 

What is that video dude going to rant about next????

- Maybe the 'fact' that the Prius is a four wheel car, yet it's really not well suited for 4-wheelin' ???? :Cry:

For me, he lost any sympathy for his message when he said:

​

" . . . you can actually feel the car jerk, when you are going 40 or 50 miles an hour, as the battery becomes . . . you know, as the motor becomes a generator and back to a battery, um, to a motor and back to a generator, and it jerks perceptively as you go through those phases."

B.S.!!!

darelldd, I bet if you put your coworker in the passenger seat of a Prius and blindfolded him, he would not be able to tell you, with even a slight degree of accuracy, when the Prius goes through those "phases."

Perceptively my A**!​