Big 3 to deepen discounts

It's not gonna help.

 

Mayby not you and I, but the (quasi) big 3 still have a lot of ignorant people to pander their products to ... people whose egos are tied to (poorly preceived) macho sexy power ... people who enjoy sporting an attitude that reeks of, 'I don't care, even when gas hits $5/gallon' ... people who don't care if their fuel comes from terrorist countries, people who foolishly thinking they're 'buying american' from outsourcing companies that simply wave flags in their commercials, allthewhile laying off and downsizing their domestic employees. It's a lot like the cigarette industry, that used to say, "we're only selling and advertising what the people want ... that's all".

 

"It's a lot like the cigarette industry, that used to say, "we're only selling and advertising what the people want ... that's all"."

Hey, how 'bout a new movie...'Thank you for buying GM', using the same premise from Thank You for Smoking: "they're addictive, they're cool...they practically sell themselves!"

 

Gotta love these posts - 'Everyone who does not do as I do is a moron'. It's nice to know we have some intelligent people on this board who can show those who do not drive a Prius how to run their lives successfully. Please share with us your lifestyle so we can all be as happy and productive as you... Perhaps you could tell all the hard working blue collar workers and manufactuers of this country to their face they are just a bunch of ignorant slobs as you allured to above... Nice...

Fuel from terrorist countries?? Sorry to burst your bubble but the Mid East will ALWAYS be able to produce oil at a price lower than we can. Though you may care where your oil comes from I can assure the vast majority of people in this country could care less where it comes from. Don't believe me - just walk into any Walmart. And, BTW, Citgo seems to being doing just fine these days.

Rick
#4 2006

 

If the price is right people will buy junk. I'll stop calling Detroit's products junk when they start leading reliability surveys.

 

Didn't mean to get anyone uptight rick, but it sounds like your doing the thing you're condemming ... namely saying someone's a moron for saying someones a moron, tho the critique was towards the media, not so much the people that buy into it. Smokers buy into it, car buyers buy into it, and if one points it out, it gets people tense ... because folks often can't deal with too big a dose of reality. No hard fealings, I hope.

 

But Hill you need to understand that auto manufacturers make what people demand. You have people that want to drive a car and you have people that want to drive a truck. You have people who like Toyota and people who like to drive a Chevrolet.

Do your research and you will see that most of the oil imported to the US is from Venezuela. Want to increase more domestic jobs? Start drilling more oil in the US to reduce foreign dependency like we did in the 70's and we will be seeing gas prices drop. Of course, We are already drilling in ND now that a Mn comapny has located a huge area of oil in that area that strecthes from southern Canada to Kansas and Wyoming.

But of course, We have stupid legislators in the Govt who want to protect everything and sanction this based on there own personal control fetish. So we protect more and more and we get less and less. Sounds communistic too me.

You drive a lexus too? Your a hypocrite! You got a big ego to push a small car and your environmentalist views onto people.

Now, I went vehicle shopping this morning but with no intentions of Buying from Toyota I wanted to se what discounts I would get offered. I got NOTHING.

I walked into a Chevrolet dealer said here is my Military ID and I'm in the US Army ( As I did at Toyota). I got the outmost respect and great treatment from the dealership. I was even Thanked for serving my country. Now as far as Toyota I was treated like shit after I showed them my ID.

I now have a 2008 Chevy Silverado 1500 sitting in my garage.

Maybe we should ban trading all together and say see yah foreign automakers.

 

Jimmie, you can't get more oil in the U.S. by simply drilling more holes.

Hubbert peak theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That much has been acknowledged since the 1950's ... that we'd peak in the 1970's. Ever since then, the U.S has pumped less, here. Sure, there's a ton of oil fields across the U.S. that aren't hardly half way empty, but that's because the LAST half doesn't simply squirt out of the ground like part of the first half does. It takes an ever increasing amount of energy to get the last bit. Thus, we'll NEVER run out, because we can't create enough energy to force it out. Eventually it becomes a crisis. Just like smoking cig's. enjoyable for many ... advertised as glamor, but ... you know the end of the story.

As for our AWD Lexus SUV, at least it can get over 30mpg. I wish we could have all our cars get over 60mpg, but sometimes you have to carry a lot of cargo and people. But GM? Their AWD SUV equivalent is what. That's right, they don't have one.

BTW, I feel bad for ANY G.I. that gets disrespected, and for any one else as well. I also feel bad that you (and anyone else) ended up with transportation that only gets around 16mpg. GM is giving away their guzzlers because most see the low mpg as an issue. It is. Did they give you a deal because you are a G.I. ?? I don't know. Around here, GM gives deals to credit union members, state employees, corporations, school employees ... you name it.

IMO GM (or whomever) only gives "deals" because it's not really a deal ... and I'd find it to be personally insulting for them to think I'd believe they think I'm "special" because I belong to this group or that group. That's what Tom Sawyer did. Got someone to paint his fense, by convincing him how "special" he was. But that's the Ad man's game ... to make you think you're special ... smart ... sexy ... outdoor'sey ... strong ... rich image ... what ever.

Selling cars aint charity work. If they CAN get more, they WILL.

As for Venezuela?
Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

 

I wish it were that simple. Like the DoD, the automakers have to forecast what the future might be like and start designing cars (or weapon systems for the DoD) years ahead of time. Soemtimes the companies guess correctly and sometimes they don't. When they guess incorrectly they still sell what comes off the production line. You will rarely hear an automaker say they designed the wrong car/truck but that you should buy it anyway to keep the company solvent. The company usually creates an artificial demand for the vehicle so they can recoup some of the money they invested in research, development, training, tool and die, factory setup, etc.

I don't believe all Americans are ready to embrace hybrid technology in cars but the big 3 seem to have underestimated the demand we have for them. Meanwhile, Toyota and Honda got a better headstart than the U.S. companies and they don't want to spend a large amount of money trying to catch up yet only end up in second place.

I wish our own automakers had done better. I wish they would admit they were licked in this area and take on the challenge to design the fourth generation hybrid cars before the Japanese do. What a great story that would be! I don't think it will happen while the big 3 decide to play it safe by going with business as usual.

 

I understand the issues we have today but I think it could be a lot worse than what you really think it is. But I understand to keep it from getting worse you have to react. But is it the right reaction?

I think a lot of people worry too much about things that are out of there control. Nature is gonna take its course and nobody will change it. Hurricanes will strike and Tornadoes will always rip through Kansas.

Now, I think it's bad when people in the US buy all the foreign vehicles and why do you think GM and other US auto manufacturers struggle? People complain about job loss and other things so why don't we bring more manufacturing back into the US and people start supporting our country? It's not gas prices that are also high, Food, Housing and other things are all high in prices. US manufacturers do make good quality vehicles. They are all mechanical machines and eventually they will break down and cause you headaches.

I've talked to several people that were part of the major start of industrialization in the 50's and they are so upset for the direction our country is going. They worked hard to make what our country was but now it's getting out of reach. I hate to be negative against foreign autos but the solution might be to withdraw from trade agreements and rebuild america to what it used to be.

 

Jimmie, I am in the military and feel very much as you do but I'll quote you from two posts ago,"People buy what they want to buy." If they are buying Toyota and Honda instead of Ford, Chevy, and GM then it means they don't want what the big 3 have to offer. I wish they did. Back in 2001 I wanted to buy a safe and reliable car for my wife and I was hoping that I could buy American. The best thing I could find was the new Ford Focus. Consumer Reports was saying great things about the car but put an asterisk next to reliability because it was an unknown. We went through at least eight recalls and some breakdowns that left my wife stranded. I've owned Honda and Toyota and those things just won't die. They also include import features as standard when other automakers list them as expensive options.

I hate to say it, but America will never be what it used to be because we can't manufacture things in the U.S. cheaper than we can import them. That doesn't mean we can't be great again. It just means that we have to get back to being creative, take risks, and continue to work hard. We have the working hard part down pat, but if we want to keep the U.S. standard of living where it currently is then we can't do it by manufacturing stuff with high-paid American workers. I want America to succeed, but ask me to choose between the $400 foreign-made TV and the $800 U.S. made TV and I'll tell you America will lose out. Call it the Walmart effect.

 

Jimmie84, thank you for your service. Now with all due respect IMO GM is getting exactly what it deserves. An engine that burns oil is NOT a good quality product. Having to go back to a dealer twice for each warranty job is NOT good quality. The only time my Intrigue went in for warranty work that was done right in only 1 trip was when a light bulb was replaced. If you really believe GM quality is good then that is your opinion. Part of the reason so many of us bought Toyotas is because we have higher expectations. Personally I was happy when GM pulled the plug on Olds and I am not sorry if anyone who built or designed my Intrigue became unemployed or is suffering financial misery. In the words of Mr. Goodwrench, "It's supposed to do that." Of course GM can't terminate every incompetant employee because there probably wouldn't be anyone left in the corporate HQ. End of GM rant.

 

To quote your words, why is this not a case of: "Nature is gonna take its course and nobody will change it. Hurricanes will strike and Tornadoes will always rip through Kansas."? People buying foreign vehicles is just the free market letting the consumer decide who makes the best cars, and voting with their dollars. The big three have lost touch with the future, so now they have to pay for it. Some of them may not survive, and many people will loose their jobs, but then, this is just the nature of the free market.

Tom

 

Keep feeding the enemy and they will grow stronger and stronger. before you know it, They will have so much power and money they will overthrow our govt. and take over. It's actually happening now. Foriegners running for office and ect.

My dad had a Cavalier with 200,000 miles on it and no problems. My truck has 350,000 on it and I've only had to do the typical maintence on it. My moms friend has a tahoe with 197,000 miles on it and he's only done a fuel pump.

You know why people have bad luck with vehicles? They never take care of them. They drive them and expect them to last forever. I was taking delivery of my truck today and happened to pass through the service counter. A lady was asking why she was having these problems with her Jeep Liberty and the service advisor said, "Well, Every fluid in your vehicle is low and you have not had an oil change in over 25,000 miles". Sounds like NEGLECT.

 

I am a shade-tree car mechanic and was a helicopter mechanic early in my Army career. I love to take care of my cars. No preventive maintenance in the world could have kept my Ford Focus from getting eight recalls. I agree that any machine will do poorly if the owner doesn't take care of it and our country is full of people that won't remember to get an oil change if their Blackberry doesn't remind them. I am glad to hear you have a great truck. I was saddened to trade my 1990 Ford Ranger Long-bed in for a 2002 minivan. However, look at the reliability statistics from Consumer Reports or other sources and you will see that you are one of the lucky ones.

I think the big 3 has started producing quality cars again, but they let their reputations get dragged in the mud with spectacular failures. Meanwhile, carmakers like Toyota and Honda have reputations like the Energizer Bunny.

Quick piece of trivia -- my foreign-made Honda Odyssey was actually made in the U.S. plant and my foreign-made Prius has a production sticker from NJ on it...

 

OOC, what do you think makes a vehicle foreign? Is it where it is produced, the percentage of domestic parts or just it's manufacturer?

Examples:

Chrysler PT Cruiser made in Mexico 35% Domestic content

Ford Fusion made in Mexico 50% Domestic content

Chevy Aveo made in S. Korea 4% Domestic content

Honda Accord made in Ohio 70% Domestic content

Toyota Camry made in Kentucky 75% Domestic content

In other words, it is cut and dried buy America and solve our problems. Domestic manufactures have a trend of outsourcing, while foreign manufacturers a trend of moving more operations to the US. I for one don't want any ceasing of foreign trade which could restrict my ability to buy a quality car that meets my wants and needs (such as minimum of 40mpg and low emissions). CR doesn't agree that Ford and GM make good quality cars across the board. While they may be improving, only 3 Big 3 vehicles made the 10 best cars list, while 8 of the 11 worst vehicles were from the Big 3.

 

That's so true. GM ads say "buy american" while they wave a flag. In fact they were the original outsourcers. Now days, buying GM means you get a car at least partly made in Canada or Mexico or China or wherever. While toyota continues to build manufacturing plants here. Soon, even the hybrids will be manufactured here as well. Go figure, that Toyota would build cars here, while GM would wave flags like they build here, only they don't. So they choose to lie, AND play on the naivetay of people who'd buy into it.

 

So be it. But where do the sales go whenever a person buys a foreign manufactured vehicle? It goes right back to China, Japan, And ect... I should look to see what GM's sales are in Canada...
A lot of GM trucks and cars are built in the US. My truck was built in Louisiana. GM's powertrains are built in Flint MI.