Toyota Prius proves a gas guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d

They could've at least filled the Prius's tank first. I consistantly achieve 900K's (560M) to 42 litres without fail, and i'm certainly no hypermiler.
PS: No bladder in Aussie fuel tanks.

 

of course the prius is going to tank going at 75 mph. If your trying to get great fuel economy, slow it down to 55 mph and 60 mpg is totally reachable. and judging by the results, i'd say 'gas guzzler' is a bit theatrical.

 

The "race" was well planned by The Times. The European motorways have a higher speed limit, 130kph (78mph) in the dry, than the UK's 70mph and the diesel is cheaper than petrol, whilst the reverse is true here in the UK (our diesel is currently £1.15 per litre, thats $3.30 per litre if those in the US want to have a laugh). Both of these factors favour the BMW.
Still, if BMW and others can improve the fuel efficiency of their cars all the better. I looked at the smaller BMW 320d but it was £7,500 more than the Prius so an easy choice. The Times are trying to make the point that the BMW driver is hard done by when paying up for road tax and the London Congestion Charge. They miss the fact that a Prius will always beat the 520d in London.

 

I don't think the Times missed it KV55, I think they chose to ignore it and make a sensationalist headline instead.

 

Regarding the concerns voiced on here that diesels may be more polluting than gasoline engines - there is no problem whatsoever with creating a SULEV rated diesel engine:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/08/ricardo-announc.html

It just needs to be implemented for those states that want low NOx.

Also, I don't think this test was a particularly fair one, as the BMW is a much heavier, larger and especially faster car (by about 40 mph in terms of top speed). They aren't really in the same category.

 

Not according to this site

A Diesel for Mr. Clean | Hybrid Cars

 

Well.. lets also divided by 1.33 since we need to be fair due to the energy advantage of diesel... and that leaves us at 41.7 mpg... bravo!

 

They can make a SULEV diesel. There is just no motivation to sell it.

 

That is pretty impressive in a lot of ways, thats a pretty big car with decent performance. Agreed, an auto 320d would have been a fairer comparison, but according to VCA numbers this would have actually reduced efficiency by ~13%. BMW seems to have done a good job with PM emissions, but NOx is still ~15-20X that of the Prius. Here's what VCA says about NOx:

NOx emissions (g/km):
NOx emissions (g/km). Oxides of nitrogen react in the atmosphere to form nitrogen dioxide (NO2) which can have adverse effects on health, particularly among people with respiratory illness. NOx also contributes to smog formation, acid rain and can damage vegetation.

CO and CO2 are also higher from the BMW, although it appears to do slightly better on HCs.

Obviously the Prius's performance in this test was less than ideal, as 48.1 IMP mpg is only 40 mpg US. Compare that to the green hybrid average of 47.5 mpg US, which would translate to 57.0 IMP mpg. My average for the all highway trip from PHX to LA with cruise ~70-75mph is still better than 48mpg US (57.6mpg IMP) RT (~700 miles).

I posted a few comments over there, we'll see if they show up or not....

Rob

 

wy don't make SULEV petrol cars?
wy fixate on the diesel?

because diesels can produce less co2 and thats what the hype is about now?
people simple don't think about anything else these days.

 

I try hard to avoid being critical, but this statement is just plain silly. Toyota's HSD is automatic at its very core; you can't make it work in a manual transmission even if you wanted to.

Tom

 

If that were true, wouldn't they already be on the market? I'm sure it is possible to make a clean diesel engine. The question is, can you also make it reliable, powerful, efficient, and cost effective? There are a lot more factors that come into play in bringing a product to market than whether it is theoretically possible. If it was "no problem whatsoever" wouldn't VW have its T2B5 TDI out by now since T2B5 is much easier to hit than SULEV? Excuses have ranged from failing to pass the emissions certification test to reliability problems, indicating its at least somewhat of a problem. I honestly hope they can pull it off, we need as many efficient alternatives as possible, but for me the jury is still very much out on how clean "clean" diesels will be.

The one "clean" diesel on the market so far is the Mercedes E320 Bluetec, which at T2B8 is not exactly impressive. Sorry to keep posting this, but here is the comparison of the E320 to the Camry Hybrid:

2008 Mercedes E320 Bluetec vs. 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid
CO2 (g/mi): 387.85 vs. 258.47 (50% higher) Greenhouse/Global Warming Gas
CO (g/mi): 2.88 vs. 0 (inf (>72X) higher) Poison / Toxic
NOx (g/mi): 0.165 vs. 0.01 (1550% or 16.5X higher) Smog / Acid Rain, breathing problems
NMOG (g/mi): 0.0814 vs. 0.006 (1257% or 13.6X higher) Formaldehyde & other VOCs, irritant, cancer
PM (g/mi): 0.002 vs. 0 (inf (>2X) higher) asthma, lung development problems in children

I certainly hope this is not the best "clean diesel" has to offer.

Rob

 

FYI, there were at least 21 SULEVII models in 2007, and at least 31 in 2008. Some of these are sold nationwide, some are only sold in places where the Gov requires lower emissions while dirtier versions are sold else where. So, SULEV isn't really even state of the art any more.

'08 SULEVII vehicles include:
Ford Escape Hybrid, Ford Focus 2L, Lincoln Milan 2.3L, Ford Taurus X, BMW 328ci 3L, Mitsubishi Galant, Mercedes E350, Honda Civic Hybrid, Civic, Accord, Hyundai HD 2L, Kia LD 2L, Nissan Rogue 2.5L, Altima 2.5L, Altima Hybrid, Mitsubishi Outlander, Lancer, Mazda 3 2L, 3 2.3L, 6 2.3L, Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Prius, Camry Hybrid, Camry 2.4L, Lexus RX400h, GS450H, LS600HL, VW Jetta 2.5L, Volvo S40 2.4L, and Subaru Legacy Wagon 2.5L.

There may actually be more, as manufacturers don't have to separately test every model/engine combination if they use the same engine and emissions equipment. A few manufacturers seem suspiciously absent from this list. Lets see: BMW, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Lexus, Lincoln, Mitsubishi, Mercedes, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, VW, Volvo, Toyota. Now who are we missing?

Rob

 

Of course the HSD is at the core of the Prius. That does not mean a more efficient system could not be designed with a manual transmission, which is inherently more efficient than an automatic. The Prius was designed for optimal emissions in city traffic, and so gets good milerage under those conditions. Prius highway mileage is not that impressive, as shown in this article.

 

a prius is no sulev?
sulev stands for a engine that produces far less.
when combined a sulev engine and a HSD you wil get even better prius!
the current prius is a PZEV with a normal alk cycle engine.

or do i make a mistake here and is sulev something thats already bean done that you can not speak of anything new!
and is the prius a sulev and pzev together

you don't get continue variable transmission and at all speeds optimum rpm with a manual!

 

Until very recently all of the manufacturers have decided that Americans are just not ready for diesel cars because of the PERCEIVED image of them in America. The popular opinion among Americans is that diesels are noisy, smelly and polluting, and this is the reason why the manufacturers have decided not to try selling them to you yet.

The anti-diesel brigade make exactly the same comments and sound just like the anti-hybrid brigade did 5 years ago. This is the only real hurdle to getting them on sale in America - NOT because of any difficulties in meeting the different emissions regulations.

Yes, they already do here in Europe where >50% of all new car sales are diesel.

 

don't forget that 90% of that are company cars and people that drive it private more then 40.000km a year
because diesel is cheaper here in the EU
not because diesels are so clean!

wy invest in diesels in usa when you can make petrol cars a lot cleaner en have more hybrids on the market
and even leave normal diesel behind and go to bio diesel and E85

 

GM's not on the list. figures. They had a zero-emission car and crushed it. Now they are tops in a list no one wants to be. Wow.

And, yes, it's true, no one i talk to wants a diesel. EVERYONE wants my car, though. Hmmm. So what is it they like about my car versus a diesel? It's available. It's green as gasoline can get right now. It's available. It's smooth and quiet and does not stink. And...it's available.

When you can convince the people that the dirty semi they are follwoing is better than the Prius...then you are one helluva salesperson! THAT's what diesel is up against.