youtube video, comparing an EV to the prius

Interesting discussion -- I am surprised that I didn't see any references to the excellent documentary, Who Killed the Electric Car. You can rent it on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, it confirms many of the things written on this thread -- things that I might have thought too conspiratorial if I hadn't already learned that it was all true. But the movie has much much more and you'll be even angrier after you see it.

I love my new Prius but really, we should have, and could have, had something much better by 2008. We could have had it many years ago. It was actually produced and then systematically destroyed. This time, the conspiracy theorists are apparently correct.

 

I've held off in the hopes this example of 'pickin' a fight' in the wrong forum would quietly go away. The video author didn't bring it here and sometimes, wrong headed thinking just needs to left alone for 'reality training.' So here are the claims from the missing author's text summaries at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hh8...43262-youtube-video-comparing-ev-prius-5.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_ms...43262-youtube-video-comparing-ev-prius-4.html

The author claims:

• "It's designed as a gas car, with the motor as an assist" - correct, which means it has the range, hill climbing, and handling to drive in traffic with regular cars. It also refuels at any of the gasoline stations located across the world.
• "Engine sometimes charges the battery" - correct, a good thing to preserve the battery but it also runs to keep the engine coolant at the most efficient operating temperature. Left in "P" on a cool, 30-40F evening, it burns about 0.06 gallons per hour to stay ready.
• "Engine and battery mismatch results in many changes of charge direction" - this is ordinary regenerative braking when driving in traffic. It is a very advanced, energy saving technique.
• "It's a gas car, and can't plug in." - correct unless you follow the plug-in hybrid activities and discover Prius are being converted by small companies into the plug-in hybrids. But it can 'plug in' to any one of hundreds of thousands of gasoline stations.
• "It's a strong parallel hybrid . . . it's gas engine is connected to the wheels, making it prior to the electric motor" - this really doesn't make sense "parallel" and "prior to". It reveals more than a semantic error but a fundamental ignorance of what is going on.
• "A serial hybrid has the engine only to generate electric." - right, so what does this have to do with anything? The term 'red herring' comes to mind.
• "(the Prius) engine starts even when you don't want it to do so." - outside of North America, you can order an optional, EV switch, to inhibit engine operation until the battery or power demands require the engine . . . or just run out of gas and drive until it stops.

In one respect, this thread has been unfair because the original author didn't bring his opinions here. Lacking any new Prius technology insights, the thread really belongs in an "advocacy" forum but sometimes the exercise adds clarity to our understanding.

I bought a Prius with the same range and driving characteristics as the gas-only Camry it replaced. I wasn't shopping for an electric vehicle because they lacked: (1) range, (2) hill climbing ability, (3) limited refueling or recharging stations, (4) availability and (5) price. Someday there may be an EV with similar to gas car performance at an affordable price. Until then, my Prius is real and sitting in the driveway.

Bob Wilson

ps. To provide a little technical content, I found a well written tutorial in "EV World" at:
EV Basics Series:

• EV Basics I – A Tale of Two Hybrids
• EV Basics II – An Electric Vehicle Primer
• EV Basics III – Why Drive Electric?
• EV Basics IV - Electric Vehicles and the Environment
• EV Basics V - Are EVs the Ultimate Weapon Against Terrorism?

One of the best quotes from this series:

3. Keep an open mind
Some folks choose one favorite type of EV drivetrain layout, battery chemistry or body style, then start treating EV-enthusiasts with alternative ideas as though they were the enemy. Don’t do that. Encourage others to think of new solutions to our transportation problems. Even if an idea seems silly at first, analyze it critically and discuss it with others to determine its merit.
​

EVWORLD FEATURE: EV Basics VI - Roadmap to an EV World: Electric Vehicles | Sustainable Mobility | Activism

 

Pretty amazing investigative journalism there -- who knew all these cars on the road are running on gasoline?

 

​

Hmmm. This will sound odd... while we may perform tasks for the same company, we are not "co-workers" by any means. In fact, I have no co-workers as I am self-employed. No point here - just trying to be accurate.

I agree that there are more inaccurate statements than accurate statements in that video!

 

Anybody know the actual patent numbers the Chevron has re: large NiMH batteries?

Thanks

 

Although I can see how much this guy may be pissing everyone off with his notations (even myself) .. I have to agree with him in the sense that the prius should be a true hybrid... it should do its best to combine on a 50/50 level the power of the I.C.E and the E.M ... so that it can achieve the best possible MPG... Another point I do get frustrated when I am accelerating from stopping at a red light and then even when i slightly tap on the gas the I.C.E take over but anyways.. there are a lot of improvements that could be done to make our beloved prius a much much more efficient car... So its ok to not think of the prius as an electric but we should aspire to make it a full hybrid with 50-50 usage of the I.C.E and the E.M ... or maybe even do a 60-40 favoring the E.M

 

Uhhh.... You DO know that ALL electricity is generated by the engine right?


If you look at it... 100% of the energy is coming from the engine... The prius is designed to primarily use the engine without converting it into electricity... simply because the conversion losses are huge.

 

Jesus F-ing Christ man .. You guys make it sound like the I.C.E is the heart of the damned Prius... It is obvious that the I.C.E does most of the work but hey ... Do I have to be the one to point out that the I.C.E just "runs" it doesnt produce the electricity it simply spins something else that actually recharges the damned battery... Anyways... simply put as long as the battery is on the green "only 1 bar from full" the E.M will do its best to do most of the work .. I hope that this is known already... (When I am green I can get my prius to pinch the 50mph without any gas as soon as it goes blue thats it .. hello I.C.E...) So lets end this whole I.C.E "creates 100% of the energy" bull-crap... dont make me go all chart crazy on you guys and start to make my prius do 100mpg ... anyways please theres no need for the whole ac-dc/dc-ac conversion crap with extra chem-battery and blah blah blah .. everything you have to make the prius at least 70mpg whatever way you drive is right there inside the prius already .. just cut the crap end the fear and take that engine apart ... Damn it .. I am getting all emotional over this crap ... I love my prius man .. so dont take this the wrong way guys ... I want to help the community out and I am not going after anyone in particular with this .. I am just saying .. there is so much more to the prius other than Stealth mode, HV mode, or plug-in ... you just have to think outside of the box .. Think about it .. Trans-warp stealth guy ... I am always up to help prius lovers ... remember I am in NJ

 

It sad to say but the ICE is still the heart of the Prius. A regular, gas-only car wastes around 80-90% of the gasolines energy as heat. The Prius' claim to fame is that it wastes slightly less by collecting some of it and storing it in a battery for (frequent) future use. Still, the energy comes from the gas and most of it isn't utilized for useful work. This is still a major problem - a major waste of energy.

Death to ICEs!:violin:

 

Guys... Come on now ... Look at it this way .. when you are going down a hill and the I.C.E is off and you can hear that it is off ... why do you still get those lovely green dotted lines back to the battery... its because theres this "thing" that gets turned really fast on the opposite way of an electric motor that transforms "magically "... the motion energy into electric energy... "Damn I done gone and made this easy as hell to figure out please dont disappoint me man..." ... So you dont need the I.C.E to charge the battery you need this "magical thing" to charge it for ya ... :target:

 

what form of energy got u up that hill? What form of energy moves you, INITIALLY, before the magic generator captures SOME of the kinetic energy provided by ___. (3 letters, rhymes with a large-mouth fish).

 

You're kidding, right? You DO understand that when you go DOWN the hill, the Prius is simply recapturing gasoline energy spent going UP the hill, vis a vis the "thing" on the oppoisite end, as you call it (ie; generator), and putting it back into the batteries ... at least I think you'd get it. Heck ... forget the hill, the same principal holds for level ground ... you simply don't waste as much gasoline on flat ground, because the ground is flat ... so you don't recapture as much, because there's NO hill. Never has something so simple been given so much energy. Too bad we can't capture all THIS wasted mental energy and put it in the batteries. Sigh.

 

Wow... I see that the jack-nice person is following the retard who is being led by the blind in here... First off, thank you for pointing out the obvious there man "vis a vis the "thing" on the oppoisite end, as you call it (ie; generator), and putting it back into the batteries" I just figured everyone already knew what magic thing I was referring too but guess I overestimated .... now lets use our brains as some people here seem to think I am talking out my nice person .. for lack of a better term... yes yes.. in part the I.C.E moves the generator.. which in turn charges the batteries .. but for the love of your damned god ... dont tell me .. you are all so far behind that you havent found the answer to make another part of the car which is constantly moving to do the work that the I.C.E does for the generator... and please gas is always wasted when the I.C.E is on... AND NO it is never "recaptured" it is gone .. Doesnt matter that the I.C.E gives off heat... prius doesnt use any heat to charge the battery at all please no thermal-anything going on there... Cool .. so moving on ... On a flat road that spans 2 miles with a 35 mph limit you go on driving off... 1st the I.C.E gets you to 35mph and then half way through this flat road theres a magical 45 degree down slope and you ... being the good econo driver you are takes your feet off the gas and boom!! the I.C.E shuts off... and you get that lovely shaking "which should tell you the I.C.E is OFF" and all of a sudden, out of the blue with the I.C.E off you get the magical green arrow charging your battery ... do you think that the car is magically recapturing the gas you used to the to the 1st 1 mile of that road?? (Please say NO... dont be that dumb ...) Or is that magical generator thing .. being turned by something else? maybe the magical wizard of os is turning it .. I dont know ... (I am being sarcastic I know what is turning it...) To make my point which could take up another 500 words or more short.... theres only 1 generator and 2 "engines" (if you will i will call the E.M an engine for the shake of simplicity....) The I.C.E is there to give you power .. so that you can pass that truck or move fast to get the hell out of the way of that car doing 100 on a 55 mile highway who is coming behind you.... for the more mundane driving .. that path of road with the 25 mph limit that never has any traffic and you just need to maintain that constant speed the I.C.E is simply not used .. until your battery drops its charge too much Ehhh .. you guys dont seem to get anything simple...

 

Bad wording on my part. I didn't mean that the Prius "recaptures" heat energy.

 

We are all Prius lovers here .. all friends .. I am just trying to get you all to think outside of the box here .. to stop focusing so much on damned manuals written by people who dont want you to know what the hell is really going on .. take a wrench a screw driver (u dont need one to open your dash by the way .. just use your hands....on the top and bottom of the vent plates and it pops off .. aside from the one on the left side of the mdf .. that one is under the top part of the dash where the power button is .. "some parts need to be unscrew though ... but use your hands on the vents and the plates that dont have screws so you dont put any tends or kinks on the dash ... ) so the screw driver is so u can remove the cover on top of the E.M and go to town man .. sit there during the weekend and make sure you see... you get... you know ... what really happens .. thats what I do on my weekends man .. I tear my "love" (its what I call my Prius 07 base) down change, add, plug, unplug... and then at the end of the day .. I put my "love" back together .. and every time I do I learn something new ...
and now I usually get 55-60+ mpg on my 40 mile drive to work (80 in total; 40 to go 40 to come back)...

 

oh my... he must be related to Bush...

that is what happens when there is little too much inbreeding

 

I just used this post to show my son what a lack of sleep and amphetamines can do to your brain. He went white and swore never to use drugs then went to bed.

If all the energy a Prius runs on doesn't come from petrol I would like to know more about the magic that it uses to obtain other energy please.

 

darn oil companies!
scum of the earth.

 

It is quite fun when people simply cant read ...
Why do you think That lovely Green Dotted Line pops up when you are going down hill or when you take your feet of the gas preparing to turn or to stop at the red light? .. Do you think the I.C.E burns gas to recharge the battery then? ... Even when you feel the nice shaking that happens when the damned I.C.E turns off? ... How about that whole talk of regenerative braking? what the hell do you suppose that does? .. Anyways man ... It seems to me that they only thing this community can do is bitch, moan ... and ask dumb questions...Oh .. and repeat dumb questions over and over again ... which is sad really ... Everyone has something to say.. but everyone (well most at least) havent even figured out where to add E.M coolant....Anyways .. I have made my points .. They are straight forward and extremely sarcastic .. but they are valid points .. if anyone cant see them well .. my improved mpg speak loud enough to me.. (enjoy yourselves there)