Red Triangle! Any thoughts?

Today I got the BIG RED TRIANGLE for the first time ever. I know that some folks have had this, only to find that nothing was wrong, and it never reappeared. Nevertheless I'd be interested in comments from those who understand this car. (Wait a minute: I think I had it once when the door was ajar, and a message telling me to put the car in Park while parked.)

So anyway, last time I drove the Prius was 3 weeks ago. I missed church the last two weekends so had no need to drive the Prius. I use the Xebra for in-town driving. On that last occasion, the CAN-View was not working. Probably irrelevant, but I want to be thorough.

I had forgotten about the CAN-View, so just got in and drove to Coeur d'Alene this morning. All was fine. The gas gauge read somewhere around 3/4 full. When I got to church I shut off the car, went around to the passenger side, found that the smaller cable on the CAN-View was loose, and I pushed it in. Probably irrelevant.

After church I got in the car, stepped on the brake, and pressed the Power button. The gas gauge showed the last pip blinking, then after a few blinks, it showed all the pips blinking, and after a few blinks showed half-full solid. All the gear-shift letters had boxes around them. Now I forget if they were blinking. I don't think the Triangle was on yet. The car would not go into gear and the engine never started, though more than ten seconds went by. I stepped on the brake again and pressed the Power button, and the car would not shut down. I tried several times. Finally I took my foot off the brake and pressed Power, and the car shut down.

Short pause. Then I tried again. Three times I repeated everything above.

Then I thought that maybe there was something about the gas tank, because of the odd behavior of the gauge. So, with the car off, I opened and then shut the gas cap. And I completely disconnected the small connector from the CAN-View. (CAN-View probably irrelevant.) I got back in. I got exactly the same behavior as before, but this time the dreaded Triangle was lit. Another try or two. Same.

After several minutes, during which I talked to someone from the church about possibly giving me a ride, I disconnected the big CAN-View connector from the car's CAN-bus data port, and tried again.

This is where my memory of the sequence of events is blurred.

I do not remember if the Triangle remained on when the car finally started, but I think it did. My friend offered to follow me as far as the freeway, so I could then decide if I wanted to risk the freeway, but I decided that driving with the Triangle on was a very bad idea.

I also do not remember if the car started for the first time after I unplugged the CAN-View, or if that was when the Triangle disappeared.

But I know that some people have found that the Triangle disappears after several start-stop cycles, so I tried that, and after one or two more tries, the Triangle disappeared, and all I was left with was the Check light.

I drove home without any further incident, but with the Check light on the whole time. I didn't want to risk stopping at the store, so I came straight home, and took the Xebra out to the grocery store. Now, 3 hours later, I went out to the car. It started fine the first try, and after the requisite ten (?) seconds (kinda seemed more like 15, but I was not timing it) the engine started up. I drove backward and forward a few inches, just to see that it would. The Check light was still on.

I will phone the Toyota dealership first thing tomorrow morning, and take it in to be looked over as soon as they can give me an appointment. But I'd appreciate any thoughts from folks who have had similar experiences, or who understand how this car works.

Thanks.

 

Thanks Patrick. I'll ask Toyota about this. Note, though, that it started and ran fine this morning. It was after driving 25 miles, then stopping, and then starting again 90 minutes later, that the problem appeared.

But I guess 4 years is old for a battery.

I used the Prius almost daily until last spring, when I got the Xebra. Since then the Prius sits for a week or two at a time. Three weeks was unusually long.

But if they agree that the aux battery is weak, I'll replace it rather than fuss with one that might poop out soon anyway. Lead batteries do seem not to last an awfully long time. As I think back, 4 or 5 years is all I've ever gotten from one, and those were bigger.

 

Thanks Galaxee. When I take it in I'll ask them which if any codes they find. I guess there'll have to be something.

How do I do that? And do the earliest versions of Can-View even have that capability?

 

Nope. DTC is not an option on mine. Might be because I have a cheaper version, or might be because I don't have the latest software flash.

But at least I determined that plugging the CAN_View back in did not cause a recurrence of the problem.

I would want to have them check it out anyway, and it's nearly time for an oil change. I'll post the codes after they've looked at it and gotten them.

 

CAN-View is a gadget that was being sold by a gentleman in Canada who built them to order in his basement. It works with the MFD on the 2004 and 2005 Prius, but the 2006 and beyond uses a different MFD, so CAN-View required a separate screen, which you'd have to purchase on your own. He didn't charge anything for software updates, but I don't have the hardware to flash the unit.

I heard that he is no longer building or supporting the unit. It was more a hobby than a business for him.

Scan-Gauge is a device that is available, that provides some of the same information. I know nothing more about it. I like the CAN-View because it lets me see, in real time, parameters like actual SoC of the traction battery, actual gas tank level, amperage into or out of the traction battery, coolant temperature. It also shows when the car is in ICE Run mode, "Stealth" mode, EV mode, and it shows EV Deny. Some versions include an EV switch. Lots of other parameters are available, but those are the ones of most interest to me. Some versions allow you to read the error codes, but I don't know if that's a later firmware version than I have, or a different hardware configuration. I suspect it's firmware.

 

I have an appointment at the Toyota dealer tomorrow. I have no need to drive the Prius before then. I'll post a report after.

 

The problem was the CAN-View. The smaller connector at the CAN-View unit had been loose, and I had reconnected it, while the car was off, immediately before he problem first occurred. When I completely disconnected the CAN-View, the problem had disappeared, except for the Check Engine icon, which apparently merely indicated that there were error codes present, due to the earlier problem.

I took the car in today. They found the following codes:

PO AID 3108 U0100 01111 0129 0146 0293 0100

Also the 12-volt battery failed the load test. It was 4 years old. In retrospect, I believe the weak battery was not the problem, but at 4 years I'm just as glad it was replaced before it did cause a problem, such as a failure to start after sitting in the airport parking lot when I returned from a trip. Returning to Spokane, tired, in the middle of the night, and finding my car unwilling to start, would have been no fun at all.

I also got an oil change, which i was due for, and a tire rotation.

I went out to the car, plugged the CAN-View back in, and all the same problems as before happened again!

I unplugged the CAN-View and all the problems disappeared, except that now the Check Engine light was on again, so I had to wait while they cleared them.

The technician said that any change in resistance on the CAN bus can generate a lot of more or less extraneous error codes, which I think he said were codes relating to a failure of communication, and that anything connected to the CAN bus can cause that. He originally thought that it was either just the battery, or a combination of the weak battery and the CAN-View, but the fact that it did it again, with a brand-new battery, convinces me that it's my CAN-View. Of course, a properly-functioning CAN-View does not do this.

When I unplugged the CAN-View for the final time, it seemed to me that the small connector (the one that had been loose when the unit was not functioning) was again loose. So that may be the problem. Or my CAN-View may be on the fritz.

Conclusion: My Prius is fine. But I will probably have to live without the CAN-View. This is less of an annoyance than it might have been, since I only drive the Prius for long trips now. 9/10 of my trips are in the Xebra. And I'll be trading in the Prius when a PHEV becomes available. I hope Toyota or Honda is the first to sell a PHEV. I'd buy a Volt if it's the first, but I'd rather buy from Toyota or Honda.

 

I agree that the connector is more likely to be the problem than the unit itself. However, if it's the connector on the cable, it's almost impossible to get at. The small connector at the CAN-View, which is the one that was loose, emerges from the car's innards under the passenger seat and has very little slack. The connector at the CAN bus socket of the car, by the driver's leg, also emerges from the car's innards with only about an inch of cable. And removing either cable would require some serious dis-assembly of car parts.

If it's the small connector (or either one, for that matter) it would not be hard to repair on a work bench, but would be very hard to repair in place.

The problem first happened when I plugged in the small connector at the unit, after it had been hanging loose for a while. That plug has 4 wires, so I think it goes to the MFD (?). But the problem disappeared when I disconnected the plug from the car below the steering wheel.

I've taken the unit out of the car. There appears to be nothing wrong with it, so if it's the connector, it would be the cable. At this point I don't know if it's worth further possible grief to fix it. The car is fine. And I don't drive it nearly as much as I used to. And I can easily live without the CAN-View. It was a fun gadget, but not a necessity.

 

Thanks, Jay. You're probably right. I've never actually looked for the battery terminals. I know there's something under the hood, but I don't know where.

Does that thing just clamp on like regular battery cables? Or do you attach something more permanent to the terminals, that you can then plug a cable into from the charger?