Berkely vs USMC

Re: Berkely vs USMC F'um

Chief, here's to keeping our fingers crossed that our shipmate and former POW will become the next Commander and Chief!:clap2:

 

Been there, done that! 1981.

Funny things about my port visit:

I literally could not buy myself a drink. The local guys on Rottnest Island told the bar tender to never take any money from me and to just put it on their tab. They were fun to drink with!

When I went out to dinner with a 'gal pal' at a swanky restaurant on the Swan River, she didn't think they would serve us since we were still dressed for the beach, and not in fancy clothing as customary. They let us in when they found out that I was USN, gave us the best table along the window overlooking the river, AND, gave us a complimentary bottle of wine.

The most interesting tidbit of information I kept hearing over and over from both men and women was how us US military folk treated Australian women with more respect than that shown them by Australian men.

Yep, I knew instantly that a good time was to be had by all when DADS(!) were at Fleet Landing inviting sailors to come meet their daughters. . . .
and spend the night with them if we liked.
And we're not talking skanky ugly girls either.

 

Wasn't February of '81 by any chance? Hot as blue blazes there that time of year.
The exchange rate was lousy, the eye candy plentiful.
We were treated very well by the locals, one of the cleanest places I've ever visited (as far as cities go).
That Swan lager was pretty good stuff, never paid for a drop of it either!
What boat were you on?

 

You guys crack me up. You assume you are somehow more entitled to an opinion because you "served" your country and were paid for doing so? Umm ok.

My brother is a currently serving marine, my best friend is ex-army and now CHP, my roomate is local PD, and I was very close to working for Sacramento PD and Dept. of Fish and Game. I'm very familiar with the various government service jobs.

It is an interesting clash of know-it-alls we have here. The military is required and the perform a service. That does not automatically mean you are somehow any better than the janitor who cleans the restrooms in our office building or the CEO running a corporation. It also does not mean you automatically know how best to run a country or manage the finer points of social institutions.

Agression is not the best tact to take when you do not have your gun toting homies to back you up. You are just a man with an opinion. My opinions are based on the good of all, not a select few who share your vision of "brotherhood" and nationalism or ethnocentrism.

 

What's the old saying? I think it goes something like this: "Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one, but that doesn't mean we want to see them."

Tom

 

That's the beauty or horror of the internet. Everyone is subject to everyone elses opinions. LOL

Point taken though. Hahaha

 

If McCain were to remotely become president, it would be the literal end to the United States, Bush Jr. has followed every one of Osama Bin Laden's orders, and McCain would do the same. The problem with the military belief here is that we are under the same military in WWII, we are not, that military Thought, the current one is led by yes generals and people with the mental thought as shown here.

McCain would just be Osama's #3, where GWB was his #2, spend spend spend, accomplish nothing except extreme debt for the country.

I find it amazing that we have military people now that have no caring for the country at all, simply mind boggling.

Let me ask you great military leaders, does debt mean nothing to you? How about lessing some of your benefits and income, raising taxes to pay for your belief?

If the answer is no, then you have lost all credibility, because causing the country to go bankrupt is Osama's Bin Laden's stated goal.

Iraq is a corporate war, Iraq never attacked the United States, Iraq is NOW aligned with Iran, thanks to GWB, we are paying insurgents that not too long ago, were shooting and killing our military, and we are furnishing weapons to these same people. Iraq has cost the country $12 Billion a week, over a trillion dollars so far, and yet you want more. Some defending you are doing, defending rich guys who want to get richer, great defense there.

 

Take all the offence you want but read the post in context. I was not attacking you military I was attacking the actions taken according to information posted. Read this from the quote in your post.

Now go and read the post I had quoted and you will see my comment was about what was posted.

Please answer this, is it right for the armed forces to punish the people of a community for the decisions of it's elected officials?
Answer yes then please tell me why we dislike dictatorships? Where is democracy that the armed forces fight for?

I wasn't laughing at America's military I was laughing because I can feel relaxed living in a country with much less crime and criminals than the USA. Read the thread and you will see where I'm coming from.

 

I knew this post was full of bull plop when you said they said put your drinks on their tab. I'm yet to go in a bar in Australia where patrons have a tab.

BTW tales about having sex with women from WA has no affect on anyone outside WA if your trying to get to me.

No parent believes the crap at the end of your post. Pity because you just lost a lot of respect, I for one thought you were a straight up kind of person. Now it seems your full of crap.

 

For the more 'mature' meaning older of us, remember when you were 18, 20, even 24 years old? We thought we knew everything, we were certain of it. Then as we got older, and older and passed, say 50 yo we realized what assholes we sometimes were in our teens and early 20s. How, years later we could recall a conversation where an elder held a different, experienced-based opinion than us and we wouldn't/couldn't acknowledge they had valuable input? That misguided certainty is what some in this thread are emitting now, and all we, as elders can do is umhuh them, nod with a knowing smile and hope they will someday look back and cringe in embarrassment at their lack of knowledge-based wisdom. A lack of life's experiences, lead to limited understanding, which they can't even possibly realize at their young, tender age. This doesn't mean by any means that the older you get the more 'right' you get, since it is obvious that some of us the same age hold vastly different opinions, but we are able to understand that with age and experience come an understanding of how little we really know which is impossible at a young age.

 

You are asuming my opinions would change if I was in my brother's boots. I would not have been in his position in the first place because I did not feel as he did when he joined nor did I suffer from the same shortcomings that pushed him into the armed forces. I'm curious why my opinions are shared by so many veterans if being in the military would somehow alter my current view. It is rather amusing to hear such sentiments when people like James Blunt and David Korten would share similar beliefs to my own yet they have served their countries in war time. So I will respectfully disagree with your argument here as it is in no way valid.

As for the last part of your reply, you are dead wrong. Many of us non-military citizens do give back to our society in a myriad of ways unfortunately the simpleminded (not claiming you are) often only see military service as the only real way to "serve" your country which IMO is a total crock. Getting paid to play pawns to a corrupt government is not my idea aiding my country. Were we to ever be in true danger of being invaded I'd stand up tall in the front lines of battle but playing toy soldier in made up unethical wars is a sign of ignorance IMO.

You want to see patriotism on an altruistic level then go visit any number of homeless and battered womens shelters or an environmental group and the millions of volunteers who donate their time to aid their communities without even the though of pay.

 

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions.

Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government.

We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must GUARD AGAINST the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must NEVER let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an ALERT and KNOWLEDGEABLE citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Eisenhower :usa2:

 

You lost me when you mentioned god created something. LOL Maybe I was wrong about the simple mind. Be well.

 

Originally Posted by F8L
You guys crack me up. You assume you are somehow more entitled to an opinion because you "served" your country and were paid for doing so? Umm ok.

I'm happy to have brought a little laughter to your life. You are the one making the assumptions. I feel no more entitled to stating my opinion because I served than a non-serving whiner. Granted my opinion will differ from those who have no first hand knowledge of having ever served our country. Yes, we were paid for serving our country, just like anyone else who has a job. That's a very weak point you are so lamely trying to make. If I had served for free, would I not be entitled to my opinion? Guys who were drafted were also paid, so what's the point?

My brother is a currently serving marine, my best friend is ex-army and now CHP, my roomate is local PD, and I was very close to working for Sacramento PD and Dept. of Fish and Game. I'm very familiar with the various government service jobs.

Ahh, yes the standard, I know, I have, my friend... Still doesn't equate to having been in the service or having served as a Law Enforcement Officer. Very close doesn't cut it! I too am very familiar with the various government service jobs, so again what's your point?

It is an interesting clash of know-it-alls we have here. The military is required and the perform a service. That does not automatically mean you are somehow any better than the janitor who cleans the restrooms in our office building or the CEO running a corporation. It also does not mean you automatically know how best to run a country or manage the finer points of social institutions.

Oh, I don't know it all, and I don't make that claim. Again this is your assumption. While I served I/we did what was required of us and performed our service with the utmost pride and professionalism. Having been a "janitor" while serving in the lower ranks, I feel no better than any other Janitor. I did what I was instructed to do, a question that arises: who you step backwards to perform the job of a Janitor? I never claimed I know how to run this country, having been in a supervisory capacity I can manage the "the finer points of social institutions."

Agression is not the best tact to take when you do not have your gun toting homies to back you up. You are just a man with an opinion. My opinions are based on the good of all, not a select few who share your vision of "brotherhood" and nationalism or ethnocentrism.

I don't require backup to do my job. I don't have to be held by the hand or overly supervised to carry out a job. Your implication of "Homies" is derogatory, I am not some gang banger as you imply. To say you speak for the good of all, is putting yourself on a very high pedestal. Are you attempting to stifle the opinions of others by putting yourself in a self proclaimed righteous position?
You'll never understand the bond shared by those who have served their country. It was a very, very rare occasion when I ever carried a side arm in the military.

This discussion has sadly gotten way out of hand. We have lost the point of the original post and have made this a retaliation of each others opinions.
I feel the US Marines have every 'right' to have a recruiting station in Berkley or anywhere's else for that matter. I feel the protesters have a 'right' to protest what ever matter they feel maybe unjust, unfair or not to their collective liking.

 

Interesting in how the liberals will find the pro-USA, pro-US Armed Forces, opinions from an American who never served worthless because -- i never served -- but when they get into it with someone who has they try to weasel their way out of it by finding veterans whose views fly against the overwhelming majority of other veterans -- needless to say they country their opinions as still worthy - the irony of it all - consistent with their do as i say and not as i do approach to politics.

i also noted his comment on his brothers "shortcomings" - how judgmental.

I agree with you wholeheartedly and honor your service to country. The father of my grandson is graduating basic training this week and is probably off to Iraq shortly thereafter. I wish him and all who currently serve this great country a safe return home after a successful completion of the mission at hand. God Bless this country and people like you and him.

 

Your words will be lost on him, he will NEVER understand what it means to be a Shipmate, Brother, Squid, Jar-Head, Zoomie, Mud Merchant, Shallow water sailor...

While I don't discredit his volunteer work, I too (patting myself on the back) volunteer my time with the Disabled American Veterans.
I also do Pet Therapy (another self patting myself on my back) in various Nursing Homes, Senior Citizen Homes, Work shops for the mentally ill, and the Veteran's hospital.

 

I'm headed off to class so I do not have the time to disect and answer you previous post in depth. You are right though, I will never understand the brotherhood you speak of but like any other "brotherhood" or connection through close association I can understand the psychology behind it. Everyone experiences similar feelings of comradarie through tight social ties, especially when faced with danger.

I thank you for your service both in the military and in public service. My original point is that military personel are paid to do their jobs and MANY men and women join the military for that simple reason. It is a job that pays well enough and does not require a degree. I know too many kids that decided on the military because they were tired of working at Burger King. I understand not all do this but there is a trend IMO.

The other issue is generally one of employment. If you have more soldiers you will generally have more people who are interested in defense funding and increased war games because that increases their personal wealth. Many of my customers love being deployed because they recieve a fat bonus and they can come back and purchase a new supercharger or DVD stereo system. Rarely do you see someone fighting against whoever is supplying their paycheck.

 

Where you military men loose your credibility, is when you state you have a better understanding of things, and you are better than civilian government.

In most cases you don't have a better understanding of things, the soldiers on the frontline, see things from a very small understanding, the same friendly people they are shaking hands with during the day, are trying to figure out ways to kill them during the night. You don't see the cost involved, you want the country to pay, but you don't want to accept responsibility to pay it back, we aren't talking about America here, we are talking about a foreign country that is draining this country dry economically.

To prove my point, if the military at the time of Vietnam had its way, we would still be in Vietnam to this day, still dying, still spending, and still not making any headway at all. We leave Vietnam, and now Vietnam is a vibrant and commercially viable country, we didn't stay to make it "better", they did it on their own.