Motor Silk? Oil additive

Very interesting, boron coating of metal can be done in a solution, as they claim, and they seem to have plausible/reasonable goals that their additive achieves over a reasonable amount of time. Will definately have to look into this further...Might even have to try it. Have watched all of the informercials for the different products come and go, although it was fun watching them drive a car without oil, shoot it with a laser, and grind on it with an angle-grinder, all of that amounted to nothing when it comes to what the product could actually do. Heck, Z-max even turned out to be not much more than tinted mineral oil. Gonna look into this some more.

 

Boron is an additive that is good at reducing wear, but I don't think it does that much to reduce friction. It is so good that many modern oils contain Boron. You don't need to buy Motor Silk to get Boron in your oil.

The 70mpg comment due to the use of Motor Silk is hogwash.

Check out my analysis of Motorcraft oil in my Prius;

http://priuschat.com/forums/attachments/file-library/7258d1201550088-uoa-used-oil-analysis-uoa3.pdf

 

that's very interesting. dont most prius owners advise against oil/fuel additives though? I used to run slick 50 in my oil in regular car and it did improve MPG ever so slightly. Keep us posted!

from the site it seems 12.8 oz. would be more then enough for our small engines..

 

I have been using a certain synthetic metal conditioner product called Militech-1 over the last 15 years or so now and while I can't be 100% sure (maybe just a placebo effect), I suspect it has always improved the engine performance of my vehicle's by conditioning the metal in the engine to reduce friction. This said, my main reason to using this was to extend engine life, and I have never had any engine wear issues. I saw a (dramatic) trade show demo of this product, where they would apply pressure to a bearing treated with various oil additives (one at a time) and then measured the torque required to stop the bearing. Most products like Slick 50 and others would allow lower levels of friction to stop the bearing, while this product made it very difficult to (about 15-25 times the force) stop the bearing.

When I added this product to my '08 Prius, it's shown almost an immediate improvement in mpg (2-3 mpg / I drive 180 miles daily) on the first two tanks of gas with it on my oil change. The downside of this product is that it calls to be added at each oil change at about 2 ounces per quart (7 ounces for 3 1/2 quarts) and it cost about $55 for two 16 ounce bottles. Since I intend to change my (0-20 synthetic) oil at a longer intervals, 10,000 miles (or every 3 months with my current commute) this may easily pay for itself on my ’08 Prius.

Militech’s web-site (warning- it’s a bit hokey so I don’t want to provide a link – you can google it if you like and find it) does have some state MTA testing data to support the reduced engine wear claims and better mpg, but surprisingly the product is primarily intended to be used for firearms lubrication and friction reduction.

 

The EPA has tested these claims, and unless you believe there is a Conspiracy going on, most have been debunked. The ones that did work had minor improvement

The way you drive will have the biggest impact on your fuel economy. SLowing down from 75 to 55 mph will provide the most improvement

As far as massive doses of boron or other chemicals/compounds, what effect will they have on the o2 sensor or catalytic converter?

 

In general, if there was a significant effect on mpg with some additive, the mfg's would put it in the oil. The reality is, over the past 20 years they have found things that reduce friction and decrease wear in engines. Today's oil is quite a bit different than it was 20 years ago. If you purchase a name brand oil, it will have all the latest additives included already. They will be added at proper amounts to be optimally effective too.

That 3-ball wear test that they did at the state fair, does not relate to the way that motor oil lubricates your engine. Good 3-ball wear test does not equal good motor oil.

 

I haven't tried it and probably won't.

With the cost of their $77 treatment package, I can drive my Prius a couple of months.

I find it interesting that their EAC-3&4 packages include "Gear Treatment for Manuel Transmissions". Must be for Mexican transmissions!

 

I'm curious if the auto trans product is compatible with the Prius CVT.

 

Thanks for the update Bill. I put some Motor Silk in on 4/17/08. I'll keep checking my past fuel logs to see if there is any difference in last years numbers. Also, Kimberly from Evergreen told me that their auto-trans formula won't work in the Prius CVT.

 

Re: More on Boron Oil additive

Ah, this is starting to make sense now. It's very misleading for the Motor Silk guy to brag about what great mileage his Prius is getting, then admit that

I would like to see instrumented lab testing performed by the EPA to confirm this. The following EPA site does test claimed fuel saving devices or additives

Gas Saving and Emission Reduction Devices Evaluation | Cars and Light Trucks | US EPA

The ANL research is pretty exotic, I really don't see how Motor Silk could replicate this if ANL is still in advanced lab testing.

It's important to do advanced lifecycle testing to ensure the long-term stability of emissions control equipment. For example, the ACEA has a pretty long list of "banned" metals for cars that are expected to offer California Emissions performance.

ZDDP is a proven antiwear additive that works especially well for "sliding" point contact, the best example being a hydraulic or solid lifter on a camshaft. Camshaft lobes are only surface hardened.

The phosphorous in ZDDP will apparently reduce the life and effectiveness of both O2 sensors and catalytic converters. Since very few modern vehicles have camshafts with pushrods, ZDDP is no longer needed. The few vehicles with pushrods, such as the GM Vortec V8's used in pickup trucks, use roller lifters to eliminate that sort of sliding friction

Fuels can also effect emissions. The former Ethyl Corp - now Afton - pretty strongly denies any link between their MMT antiknock additive and reduced catalyst and O2 sensor life. All the car makers state to avoid MMT gasolines, and ACEA also forbids it.

The Boron that is now in motor oils, and the nanoparticle boric acid work being done at ANL, is quite different. As now used in motor oils, boron is an antiwear additive. Like any other additive, careful attention has to be paid to additive levels and the impact on O2 sensors and catalytic converters

I believe the ANL research on nanoparticle borics hold a lot of promise. It will probably be awhile before such additives show up in conventional oils

 

Re: More on Boron Oil additive

Bill

Hydrogen orthoborate *is* boric acid by another name. Please verify this by the general description

BORIC ACID

The Argonne development of nano boric acid is entirely different. ANL did *not* "invent" boric acid, it was first prepared from borax in the late 1600's.

The ANL has done pioneering work on creating "nano" particles, in particular "nanofluids." This work is still experimental

Argonne Transportation - Nanofluids

Argonne Transportation - Near-Frictionless Carbon Coating

Call me a skeptic, but I want to see third-party verifiable results from "official" sources. A lot of the Snake Oil claims are dubious at best, eg Slick 50

jay

 

Bill,

I could be wrong and have demonstrated my ability to be so before, but I don't think Jay was attacking your find per se. It appears he was just trying to say that any additive or change to the oil system could have other effects than the one you want.

It seems that any product is a trade off: desired plus possible unknown or not desired. Maybe it is a balance we just have to make an informed choice about.

Thanks for the find. I will examine it further also. In the past I was one of those who thought Slick 50 was good stuff. It just goes to show that my education was so compartmentalized that I knew nothing at all when I really needed it.

It would be great if this product was all positive and no negative wouldnt it?

 

Bill

I'm not in any way attacking your character or your mention of this product. However, I'm skeptical of any claim that a fluid alone will increase fuel economy 5-10 mpg

I've used everything from 15W-40 HD diesel motor oil (In hot summer temps, never in cold temps) to Mobil 1 0W-20 in my Prius. In summer driving, perhaps 2 MPG difference between the 15W-40 and the 0W-20

In bitter cold winter driving, perhaps I can average 3 MPG more running Mobil 1 0W-20 vs Mobil 1 0W-30. I'm absolutely convinced, and this is also proven with testing, that high quality light viscosity motor oils improve fuel economy and engine protection in cold temps

Where I have issue is when a company makes rather extrodinary claims with no independent third party verification. The only way to eliminate such factors as wind resistance, temperature, driver variability, is to instrument an engine dynometer and perform very closely controlled testing

Unless I missed it, nowhere in the ANL site did I see mention that this product is already in use. I'm sure once ANL has proven the product in advanced lab testing, we will see the major oil companies market it

A concern I have is someone applying this product and actually causing damage, eg to the Prius cvt or to a conventional automatic transmission. I've had a coworker who - through good intentions - applied a snake oil treatment to her automatic transmission, which started slipping.

A very costly rebuild was necessary. True enough, her transmission was probably already worn out, but the snake oil either contributed to the demise or did nothing to prevent it.

As far as currently available synthetics, I first started using them 24 years ago due to their proven low temperature performance, including protection from sludge at very cold temps. I discount any claims of magic fuel economy improvements from these oils.

One thing everybody should keep in mind regarding the API/ILSAC, and even the ACEA, fuel economy "improvement" test: the reference oil is a HD 15W-40. So any claim of fuel economy improvement is in relation to running a 15W-40 at normal operating temps

The usual order of "gain" is around 2% for a 5W-30, and around 3% for a 5W-20. If you're getting 20 mpg, you will gain - at most - 0.6 mpg. If you are getting 50 mpg, you will gain - at most - 1.5 mpg. This is within statistical variation

jay

 

I dont think there is much energy used to overcome friction in an engine. Anyone know what percent of fuel energy is used to overcome engine friction? I am guessing no more than 5%. So, a 20% reduction in friction will only give you a 1% improvement in mpg.

 

There isn't much data out there

Advanced Technologies & Energy Efficiency

Euro Auto - Coatings To Improve Performance - 05/06

According to most of the literature, around 15-20% of motor energy input is consumed by internal friction, which will show up as heat. Rather than using a magic elixir, special surface coatings have to be applied directly to the materials: piston rings, cylinder liners, camshafts, and bearings

Just by using low tension moly rings, we have achieved some progress. It's obvious that more has to be done

Work has also been done with very large industrial motors used for power generation and co-generation. A Waukesha was prototyped and they discovered that by reducing friction 50%, fuel consumption was reduced 2%.

Information Bridge: DOE Scientific and Technical Information - - Document #890706

That will obviously pay off for power generation, if oil consumption and durability can be controlled