Economy Predictions - what are yours?

Ok, so how will you accomplish that? I'm all for reasonable spending, but I bet you wouldn't be for stopping all funds for Iraq either, so how would you justify reasonable spending against OUTRAGEOUS spending?

 

Well, one metric (if you believe in a balanced budget) is to not spend more than you take in in taxes. With that as a baseline, running the credit card balance up past $9 trillion should qualify as OUTRAGEOUS spending.

 

First of all the 2 wars and the increased spending on some parts of the military and increased spending on domestic security were needed. People seem to have short memories. Do you remember:
1.) A lot of bad guys were openly taking video of our bridges and buildings to allow the bad guys back in the middle east to find the perfect target?
2.) Dozens of bad guys freely went around our country and planned attacks against us?
3.) The past leader of Iraq was sending money to the families of suicide bombers that attacked western interests around the world?
4.) Afghanistan and its leaders openly trained people to attack our country, openly looked for nuclear material, etc.. and had a millionaire backer for their crazy ideas?
5.) We had some jackass sending anthrax through the mail shutting down our mail service and causes huge disruptions, not counting the people that died and were hospitlized?
6.) Biological and Nuclear weapons are easier to buy now than ever before. Until the US stopped him that one guy from Pakistan was openly selling nuclear technology.


I could go on but my fingers hurt from typing. The point is I'm sure the president sat down with some pretty smart people and they told him.... sir its highly probable if we dont do something theres a good change 1 or more of our major cities will get hit with a nuclear or biological weapon. Then some finanical guys probably showed him the potential economic costs if that happened. So they said what could we do to make things safer?


1.) Since we have a huge Islamic population in this county and you can't kick them all out you better be able to hear what people are talking about on their cell phones, etc... ie domestic spying.
2.) Since Afghanistan openly trains people and the people in power want use dead we better do something there... ie Afghanistan invasion.
3.) Since Sadam has a lot of money and wants us dead and encourages countries around him to be evil (like the venazualan govenment is doing now in South America) we need to get him out... Iraq invasion.
etc...

The fact that we have not been hit is a testimate to the plans success. I mean think about it, its not very hard to plan an attack and do it. But the government has enough eyes and ears now that it has not happened.

 

Double post

 

Double post and double talk.

You have just simply tried to justify the extreme expenditures without any rational thought.

1.) A lot of bad guys were openly taking video of our bridges and buildings to allow the bad guys back in the middle east to find the perfect target?

And not much of that has been or could be stopped today

2.) Dozens of bad guys freely went around our country and planned attacks against us?

And nothing has been changed since then

3.) The past leader of Iraq was sending money to the families of suicide bombers that attacked western interests around the world?

WRONG, another false NeoCon idea, he along with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, and most of the Middle East were giving money to families that had suicide bombers against Israel, but no where else.

4.) Afghanistan and its leaders openly trained people to attack our country, openly looked for nuclear material, etc.. and had a millionaire backer for their crazy ideas?

The Taliban just harbored Al Qaeda, the Taliban had no desire to attack the United States, they did support Al Qaeda though. Although, in all the expense of Afghanistan, did Bush accomplish the goal of capturing Osama or for that matter, getting rid of the Taliban? Was money and the troops used wisely there to finish off the problem? And a final thing, because of the current US situation in Afghanistan, Afghanistan had the largest crop of drugs they have ever had, guess where that goes, and that crop created a huge amount of money for the Taliban, Al Qaeda and terrorists there and world wide. So what exactly has the money spent on Afghanistan done?

5.) We had some jackass sending anthrax through the mail shutting down our mail service and causes huge disruptions, not counting the people that died and were hospitlized?

At this point its highly suspected it was a government employee, domestic terrorist, which is another question, why has that person never been captured? Doesn't that kind of leave it open to happen again?

6.) Biological and Nuclear weapons are easier to buy now than ever before. Until the US stopped him that one guy from Pakistan was openly selling nuclear technology.

Nothing has been stopped with that at all, its easier to buy because GWB's policies are encouraging the very people and countries that we don't want to be using those, fear of invasion greatly encourages the manufacturing and desire for better weapons. And more weapons by countries with less security, opens a lot of doors for terrorists that have a lot of money.

All you did was try to justify the huge spending, didn't work, but nice try, but still doesn't answer the question, you said cut down on spending, but apparently only spending you approve of, and thats not good economics.


And finally, YOU LOST ALL CREDIBILITY, when you said Bush had smart guys around him, now I do not like Bush, he is the worst president in US history, but I'm saying this with absolute non-biased truth, Bush does NOT SURROUND himself with smart people, I researched his history, all you have to do is look at the people he surrounds himself with, they are not smart people.

 

You're joking, right? A thousand billion dollars (so far) on an illegal, unnecessary, and unwinable war, which has served to destabilize the only nation in the region that stood against Iran. Needed??? I think not!

 

1.) A lot of bad guys were openly taking video of our bridges and buildings to allow the bad guys back in the middle east to find the perfect target?
And not much of that has been or could be stopped today

Not true. Security has been increased in critical areas. People have been detained and questioned for taking video post 9/11.

2.) Dozens of bad guys freely went around our country and planned attacks against us?
And nothing has been changed since then

Now they need to look over their shoulders for a missile strike. We have killed an awful lot of them.

3.) The past leader of Iraq was sending money to the families of suicide bombers that attacked western interests around the world?
WRONG, another false NeoCon idea, he along with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, and most of the Middle East were giving money to families that had suicide bombers against Israel, but no where else.

You are wrong Sadam was sending them money. Private citizens of the countries you mention do too, but its not the government openly doing it.

 

To avoid having to post a million times I will just say one more thing on this. We could argue all day and it does not help anything.

To say the spending GWB has done on security, the military, etc... has made us less secure (which is what the media likes to tell us) is just plain stupid. Our ability to easedrop on individuals and governments through both video and audio is the best it has ever been in our history. Our ability to knock down a rogue missile is better than it has ever been in our history. The changes being made to our military in both training and the weapons available to them puts us ahead of any nation in the world.

At this point Iran can work on nuclear technology all they want. You can bet we know exactly were the nuclear material is stored and the research facilities are located. If they get to a point where they want to launch an attack (and they will one day) we will be ready.
As far as Bin Laden... the reason we can't find him is because he is hiding in a cave somewhere, not walking around freely. Before we invaded he freely met with the leaders of other terrorist groups and determined how they could work together.
To say the leaders on Afgan. did not want us dead is stupid. The attacks of 9/11 were known to members of the Afgan government. Not reporting something like that makes you just as guilty as the person who planned it.
Before we invaded Afgan training camps were open to anyone wanting terrorist training. In fact Americans were freeing traveling over there getting training and returning home. That can no longer happen.

 

1.) A lot of bad guys were openly taking video of our bridges and buildings to allow the bad guys back in the middle east to find the perfect target?
And not much of that has been or could be stopped today

Not true. Security has been increased in critical areas. People have been detained and questioned for taking video post 9/11.

Somehow I think I could go to any landmark and take pictures without being detained and asked why I'm taking pictures, yes there is more security, but nothing has really been stopped, terrorists change.

2.) Dozens of bad guys freely went around our country and planned attacks against us?
And nothing has been changed since then

Now they need to look over their shoulders for a missile strike. We have killed an awful lot of them.

Yet their numbers are the same and stronger according to the CIA, they have more money, more training camps and are getting better organized, even gaining and training non-muslim looking people now.

3.) The past leader of Iraq was sending money to the families of suicide bombers that attacked western interests around the world?
WRONG, another false NeoCon idea, he along with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, and most of the Middle East were giving money to families that had suicide bombers against Israel, but no where else.

You are wrong Sadam was sending them money. Private citizens of the countries you mention do too, but its not the government openly doing it.

Didn't say he didn't, I said most of the countries in the Middle East were giving money to families of suicide bombers in Israel, and also, all the suicide bombers that attacked the US were mostly Saudi and NO Iraqis, not sure that will be the case in the near future. And I think you will find that most of the Middle East governments take a blind eye to supporting suicide bombers against Israel.

Iran has no intention of attacking the US, economically they might, but thats the case with most of the world, you are playing the stupid game, the fear game, and it works for you, but I don't fall for it. We spend way too much money on military equipment that is not needed for the kind of war we have in the future, we have high tech planes that never see combat and become obsolete before ever doing anything, we have all kinds of air and land vehicles that have no real purpose and don't do the job they were really designed for. Spending billions and trillions on a military that is being built up for a job its not needed for is stupid. Unlike you I don't lie, we need to have a good military, one that makes sense for the times and the future, not one designed on how much money we can waste. So, I say cut back on spending in all the wrong places, Iraq, the military and domestic, fair, honest and truthful.

 

Don't get me wrong I think GWB is an idiot. I don't like the GOP in general and have never voted for one of them. But back after 9/11 happened I saw a lot of crap happening in the world that scared the hell out of me. I hope to god a nuclear or biological device never goes off in an American city. I do think GWB has done his best to prevent that.

The problem is, Rumsfeld was an even bigger idiot. He planned the invasion of Iraq poorly because he was an arrogant, bitter, assinine, .... man who botched the whole thing. If he had listened to the generals who told him what was needed, things would have gone a lot smoother.

I feel sad that we've lost about 4000 great men and woman in Iraq over the last five years. But remember we lost over 3000 in one day with a very weak attack compared to what is possible.

 

Not to mention the fact that on a weekly if not daily basis the Iraqis, before we invaded, were targeting and/or firing missles at our Military Pilots enforcing the UN Mandated No-Fly Zone in Iraq.

Wildkow

p.s. I love it when the Looney Left contends that Iraq wasn't involved in terror or trying to harm/kill American's before we invaded. It shows the general disregard and disrespect for our Men and Women in the Military.

 

Iraq hasn't and won't prevent a damn thing, thats where the whole thing goes south, the belief that it will somehow spread democracy and make things all fuzzy and warm, is an ignorant belief.

While all the attention and money is being spent on Iraq, we took our eye off the ball in Asia, South America, Europe, Africa and the rest of the Middle East, we have created a world that doesn't look very kindly at the US, doesn't like our tactics and is literally afraid of what the US will do. Thats not creating a world we don't have to worry about, and we spent an awful lot of money to create a world that hates us.

 

I love when someone that hates America has no sense of reality, who imposed the No-Fly Zone? What would the average American do if a foreign country imposed a no fly zone in this country, for that matter what would GWB do? I bet take a few poc shots at that evil foreign power. But being realistic, how many planes were shot out of the sky, and how much a month was that costing the US?

I'll answer for you, since it would take a year to explain numbers to you, no planes were shot out of the sky, it was costing appoximately $1 Billion a month compared to $12 Billion a week, seems like a bad investment to me, but see I'm a fiscal conservative.

 

It all boils down to fiscal responsibility. I'm betting that most of us posting here have it. I have my income and my expenses. I live by a budget, so that I can pay my expenses, take care of mine and my son's needs, save a little, and spend a little.

Imagine if I budgeted it my money as the federal government has. I would probably have gone out and run up a million dollars in debt. I would not have even thought of tomorrow or considered my son's future. I would have probably gone out to the mall and bought my son all kinds of cool, trendy toys, taken him to Disney every weekend, bought expensive designer clothes for us both, luxury cars, lavish vacations, etc. We all know that it would catch up with me at some point in time and it would not be pretty.

On a much larger scale, our government has done this. Spent and spent without a thought of tomorrow. Of course the architects of this financial disaster will not have to pay for their deeds - the American people will. Our children will.

Say what you will about Clinton, but the proof is in the pudding. He left his successor with a surplus. He left the budget in good working order. He was a good steward of it. Bush has not been such, plain and simple, and will, therefore, leave a terrible mountain of debt behind for the next president...and that's just the financial part. He will leave behind much more of a mess than that. Either way, can't wait until he leaves...

 

One of the reasons for our debt is because of the tax cuts for the rich which should not have happened.

That said... back to the money spent on defense.

saminjax I get what you are saying. But what if a group of people were trying to kill you and your family. They sat in their houses and planned attacks against you and truly hated you. And the only way to try to protect yourself was to take out a loan and go into debt $1,000 a month (Of course nothing can absolutely guarantee your safety, but smart people around you, that you trust, tell you its the best chance you have to be safe.). Would you be willing to go into debt to try to protect yourself and your family?

 

That's a good one. :brick:

I guess you think that sending our men and women to a war based on lies, cutting veteran's funding, treating them worse than dogs in filthy, under-funded military medical facilities (i.e., Walter Reed), extending their deployments against their will, sending them back into Iraq wounded, sending their bodies home in wooden boxes is treating them with high regard and respect???? Do you think that saving money by discharging them in such a way that they lose their benefits is doing right by them? What about refusing to support the GI Bill (like McCain)?

SORRY, but you don't get to hang the big, fat, patriotic military medal on this administration or on the GOP this time, pal. The treatment of our soldiers has been a total disgrace! I am HORRIFIED that they have sacrificed so much and fought so hard, only to be treated with such disdain by an administration that has no value for human life whatsoever. Give me a break.

 

I'll tell you one thing - If I had to borrow money, I would borrow the least amount necessary and spend it wisely in an effort to solve my problem. I would take into account the expertise and advice of those who knew a lot about such situations, so they could help me make wise decisions. I wouldn't send people like that away, just because they disagree with me sometimes. I would go fight THOSE people - you know, the ones who actually attacked me- not the guy a few doors down that I don't like. Besides, I would probably be arrested for attacking him. Maybe I would already have the best weaponry money could buy and I would use it to get the ones who actually attacked me. I wouldn't spread fear throughout the neighborhood, so that I could justify attacking that guy, instead of the real offenders. I would spend my money ACTUALLY protecting my family, instead of bullying my neighbors into attacking the guy I don't like, making my town more unstable, and making all of the rest of the neighborhood hate my guts.

 

I'd like to answer that also, if you have to go into debt to protect yourself, you wouldn't go buy every gun or knife in the place to do it, you would decide the best defense on what you could afford to go into debt for. I for one would never consider a government official with trust, high government officials are usually people out to get the most for their time in public service, its the few and far between that I would put more trust in, and this administration only had Colin Powell, and even he didn't believe the BS.

Trust comes from really knowing what you are believing in, financial and realistic, at 9/11 I had no fear, I knew this country would pull up its britches and want to hit back, thats the one thing about this country, we do that. What I found was sad, was all the frightened people, what was there to be frightened of? All the police units in this country came together, we found out who did it and why, and we had a direction to go, all idiot had to do was give the order, and to his credit he did. But like I said, thats where it turns south, he never allowed the military to finish the job, he even stopped them when they were about to get Osama.

Then his attention was directed towards Iraq, by the power elite in his administration, with a solid belief in making a lot of money in Iraq, there really was no other justification that made sense.

Fear should not be what Americans base their trust on, it will get you every time, just like now, fear has allowed a moron to steal your rights, your freedom, your future, your family's future, indebted you and your family for generations, allowed foreign powers to own our debt, gain interest on our debt and coming very close to holding our economy hostage.

 

...and you also would probably make sure your money was kept in a safe place, instead of losing a great amount of it, by not keeping track of it, wouldn't you? duhhhhh

 

That was Rumsfeld's plan, "Light Footprint" it failed. You're wrong again! LOL!

Wildkow