The Death of the V6 and V8 engines.....

I'm not so optimistic. There are still a LOT of 'mercinz who will give up there F350 when you pry the steering wheel out of their cold dead (and bankrupt) hands. There will also stil be a market for powerful engines as work trucks and to be used for towing and upper class soccer moms who think they are safe. However, new CAFE standards will have an effect on what auto makers are producing so ideally there will be a lot more fuel efficient options and and ideally many people will downsize their daily driver.

What I do think is at risk of dying is the muscle car, which in some ways is kind of sad. I would hate to see the end of the Corvette and Mustang.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about the death of the V6 and V8. The urge to keep up with the Jones' next door can't be beat into submission so easy. It's the way our current society works and what the media pounds into you day in/day out.

I think it's going to take one more generation (my 5 and 10 yr old kids e.g.) to come to the realization that cars are nothing but a money waster and do nothing to reflect one's status or wealth.

 

I agree. The bottom has dropped out of the SUV market in my area already. We've seen it coming for a long time. We just can't continue to over consume. It isn't working. People are finally realizing that.

On a similar note, my father in law licensed an electric golf car for in town driving last Friday. I know this is already legal in many places, but people just haven't done it around here. He had a heck of a time at the license bureau, but he got it done.

Our family is in the golf car 'bidness.

People are looking for alternatives. The market for big engined cars is disappearing. The only thing that surprises me about this is how fast it's happening. Probably about a year ago was when things seemed to start slowing down for the big cars, and it's seemed to continue to trickle. Just in the last 3 months, though, everyone seems to be chucking those gas guzzlers left and right.

 

Smug?

I wouldn't be so happy about the DEATH of the American way. Pickup trucks, apple pie, water skiing, motor homes etc are all status icons of an economy that was well off. Lets see what these high fuel prices do to the middle class American. I think your going to see a very different United States in the next 5-10 years and it wont be pretty.

Keep in mind EVERYTHING we buy travels by truck and diesel costs will drive up food and consumer goods pricing. Not to mention diesel powers the tractors for farming, fertilizer, pesticides, etc. When a loaf of bread is 10.00 dollars will you still be rejoicing?

There are some dark clouds heading towards the USA. I love this country! I'm sickened by whats happening.

 

Out of curiosity, which presidential candidate did you vote in 2000 and 2004? Which party's senators and representatives have you voted for in the last 8 years?

 

I honestly wouldn't mind if locally grown produce would take over because it will become to expensive to move goods from one end of the world to another. Honestly I'm not very impressed with the quality of produce that is offered in the supermarkets these days. Produce bought during the Saturday farmers markets are much higher quality and taste.

But that's just my opinion and may have some bias since I grew up in a 6000 soul village where my grandma would grow most of our food in her own garden.

Also, the amount of waste which is produced during a normal shopping tour amazes me. You buy a friggin pack of chewing gum and mindlessly it gets stuffed in a plastic carrying bag (plastic = oil). Many times I had to remind the cashier that I do not need a carrying bag for such a small amount of items or I have my reusable bags with me for a bigger shopping trip. Don't get me started on the packing of some goods. Tons of plastic with almost nothing inside. :Wth:

Maybe... just maybe those high oil and produce prizes are what we need to finally realize laziness, mindlessness and the lack of common sense is not the way you live your life and only a change of our lifestyle can avoid a complete future train wreck. But then, it might be too late already.

Thomas

 

Just in time for Chevrolet to release the new Camaro. Could GM's timing be any better?

 

I don't even think that there's much risk of the muscle car dying; this is basically the equivalent of the Bentley or the Ferrari. Remember, both of these, admittedly beautiful, gas hogs are made in Europe where gas prices have been through the roof for years.

I don't think that you're going to see American car culture go the way of the dodo, but I do think that you're going to see it change and potentially stratify so that only the elite can participate at a level deeper than spectator. The changes are going to be deep, and probably painful as people realize that they can't just hop in their traditional car drive to where ever.

For around town, I'd hope that we start seeing the return of things like public transportation or simply more walking/bicycle riding. At a minimum, I think we also might start to see the return of attitudes like my grandparents had; they thought before they went out shopping. That was a throwback to the days when you didn't want to have to hitch the horses up more than once. They generally didn't run out at the drop of a hat, if something was forgotten (which was rare) it was: a) a big deal; b) usually relegated to the next trip's list.

As for public transportation, sooner or later we're going to have to start investing in the necessary infrastructure. That is we're going to have to if we don't want to be walking everywhere we go. We all know that as great as our cars are on FE for 20-30 minute trips, for most of us, that's not our average trip to the store. Yes, I'm sure that there are exceptions, but the reality is that most Prius drivers seem to eventually come to the realization that our cars don't get such great FE when driven short distances (unless you've got the EV mod and/or a plug-in.)

I don't necessarily see a return to values like that as so bad. Anything that knocks the "instant gratification" expectation back down to a reasonable level isn't so bad. If it gets combined with some personal awareness how we interact with the world around us, that's not so bad either.

OK, now I know I'm getting old, I'm beginning to sound like my father....

Well, yes, to a point. It's probably more accurate to say that everything in this country gets to its final destination by truck (of some size.) However, most bulk goods in this country still move by rail. Yes, good old-fashioned trains, which by the way are the original hybrid vehicles. OK, I'm not counting the old steam locomotives; I'm talking about the modern diesel-electrics. The FE numbers on those things are really rather impressive.

So something else that we're likely to see returning is both travel by train as well as a renaissance in small local lines. No, I'm not suggesting that we should be satisfied with the technology that we've got. But it sure beats the pants off of the alternatives right now and should help us bridge the gap to something more efficient.

It all boils down to being willing to undergo the lifestyle changes that are going to be necessary to weather this storm. I believe that this is really one of those places were we either bend with the wind or are broken by it. Hopefully, we haven’t gotten so rigid that we can’t bend….

 

no so fast

Although I despise monstrosity class SUVs (5000+ lb. curb weight beasts like Tahoes, Hummer H2s, Yukons, Expeditions, Escalades, etc.), I SERIOUSLY doubt that 6 and 8 cylinder engines will go away in the next 2 years. I STILL see new/current gen monstrosities popping up. I still see tons of them running around being driven solo and/or w/minimal cargo and passengers.

Have you looked at US auto sales and trends? Per Light-Duty Automotive Technology and Fuel Economy Trends: 1975 Through 2007 - Executive Summary | Cars and Light Trucks | US EPA, 49% of US vehicle sales for 07 was light trucks. Look at how many of the top 20 selling vehicles last month have 6 cylinder or higher engines only at Top-20 selling vehicles in U.S. through April | Markets | Markets News | Reuters. Despite falling sales, look at how many monstrosities GM sold last month and YTD at http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/84/84530/GM_ Apr08_Deliveries.pdf.

YTD, per April 2008 U.S. Light Vehicle Sales Scorecard, 2.2 million light trucks (includes SUV, minivans, pickups, some vans and some crossovers) were sold in the US. How many do you think were powered by <6 cylinder engines?

The American public seems to also have case of amnesia or only short-term memory. When gas prices go back down (even if just temporarily), they start diving in and buying guzzlers again.

 

I agree with you. I would BAN all SUV's and pickup trucks with huge engines-(Unless they are used for a business) and force automakers to get at least 40+ MPG on ALL their vehicles within 3 years. I'm real bent as everywhere I go I get passed by these huge vehicles with most people speeding far above the speed limit. They are costing all of us more $$$ because of their selfishness and irresponsibility.

I grew up with station wagons and later moni vans. I see zero need for SUV's. Only is this wasteful country!

 

One more note: When I sit @ a draw bridge that's up or in a bank line most all of the people driving gas hogs never shut their engines off. I always shut my car or bike down in situations like this as to not waste fuel & pollute the air. What the heck is wrong with these people??

 

Is that what that song is about: "moni moni, moni moni..."

Tom

 

I don't know about you guys but I get satisfaction seeing people driving around in their large SUVs. When I drop my daughter off at school more than half the other parents come in driving a huge SUV. Just the parent and one or two kids and they need to drive that monster? I think that is very funny. I can imagine what their gas bills are. Dumbasses.

That said we as a nation love to drive and we are a very resilient. We will find new ways to drive our cars. Whether they run on electric, hydrogen, or whatever we will find a way out of this mess. High oil prices will create an opportunity for us to become creative and develop alternatives to oil. There are a lot of startup companies popping up all over the country which are coming up with great ideas for alternative forms of energy. I look forward to all the choices we will have in the next few years and thank the greedy oil companies for allowing it to happen.

 

Some of us might remember when scaling down from a V8 to a 6 was actually a bit embarassing (altho sensible). Those 6's of the 60s & 70's had a high-pitched 'singing' sort of hum, that was a dead give-away of their meek, but moderately economical nature.

Today, a 6 seems extravagantly powerful in comparison to the zippy, fun 4's scampering about. Everything's relative

 

naw, I dont think banning anything is good advice. Let the market do the changing. If people want to spend all their discretionary income on the new SUX 9000 mega monster then let em. Fewer and fewer will sell as the cost of ownership goes up.

I remember the 70's like it was yesterday. I went from a Plymouth superbird 160mph road monster to a toyota corona to a toyota celica etc. The market influenced me to better decisions for cost of ownership and resales.

It will happen all on it's own. Americans like to bend the fates to fit what they want. One day that will be a bit more difficult maybe.

 

The European mindset is a little different than the American mindset but also the European countries are not as vast and large as North America.
Suburbia is virtually non-existent and public transportation with buses, rails, bike path etc etc is way more available than in the US.

Before I moved to the US 10 years ago I lived and grew up in Germany and no matter where my parents moved to, a baker, butcher and a small grocery was always around the corner, maybe 2 or 3 blocks away. You could easily walk that distance or take your bicycle if you had to shop for a case of milk or something. Such thing is not possible in suburbia. The next grocer, baker, butcher or whatever is miles away in one of the large shopping malls, which most of the times contains just the regular franchised stores with no produce of quality available unless your lucky enough to have a Farmers Market, Trader Joe's or Whole Foods nearby.

Now living in downtown of a larger city like Chicago, New York or San Francisco etc. will give you more options as there are more stores and public transportation available close to you when you live inside the city. But the high costs of housing in the city will prohibit most of the people to live there, so that's not an option for most of the middle class and lower income residents.

I think the planning of suburbia and the mindset of people to go for the cheapest stuff available does not even allow for neighborhoods to integrate groceries, butcher, baker, small supermarkets into their areas since those businesses would fold rather quickly or just simply not being permitted to set foot into residential marked areas.

Also driving in Europe is many fold more expensive then it is in the US. You pay taxes depending on the displacement of your engine, hence you will see a lot of smaller 1.3 to 2.0 liter engines and the gas is twice as expensive as it is in the US.

I can remember the times when going to the larger supermarket for bulk goods like toilet paper and other household items was maybe done twice a month with a big shopping list accumulated over time. Here I catch myself often enough to jump in the car in the middle of the night if I forgot something at the store from the shopping trip I just had 30 minutes ago.

But I'm slowly adjusting and now I take my panniers with my bicycle and I ride to the store instead of taking the car. It might take a few more minutes, but I get a good exercise and my legs will feel the punishment if I'm forgetful during my trip and I have to turn around again.

I don't know if any of this makes sense as I was just rambling and scribbling down stuff but it's early in the morning and I haven't slept much last night.

Thomas