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MFD tricks

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by bwilson4web, May 25, 2008.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'd like to discuss: (1) getting 99.9 MPG for non-trivial distances, and (2) getting a display with solid, 100 MPG bars.

    [​IMG]
    Ok, let's start with getting the consumption numbers right. This will take about two hours, not counting the vehicle preparation and route:

    • Vehicle Preparation

    • high energy gas - in North Alabama, Shell, 87 is the highest followed by Exxon and Chevron (as of last summer.)
    • change lubricants - fresh engine oil, filter and transaxle oil but let them 'age' for about 30 days. Be sure the ICE level is no more than 3/4ths full.
    • clean air filter - need we say more?
    • tires - maximum side wall pressure
    • wheels - recent alignment including rear wheels if you know how to adjust using shims
    • either have your radiator blocks or a thermistor hack (a system that allows lower ICE temperatures to appear to be at 70C)
    • Route Research

    • find a flat parking lot you can maintain 15-20 mph without having to come to a stop
    • map a route to the lot from the nearest limited access road
    • Driving protocol

    • look for a windless day or evening at 75F or more degrees ... bring good music
    • drive at a speed of 50-60 mph for at least 30 minutes to fully warm up the car, tires and charge the battery
    • take the exit and drive to parking lot and stop
    • put in the radiator blocks and/or enable the thermistor hack
    • optional: do a forced charge on battery and then turn it off and back on
    • reset the MFD and do a practice lap at 18-20 mph
    • without stopping, reset the MFD after the first lap and try to hold 18-20 mph for as long as it takes to get as many miles on the display as you want at 99.9 MPG
    [​IMG]

    This will take about 40 minutes and relies on a latent defect of the MFD display: a single 100 MPG instantaneous display bar becomes the 5 minute average.

    • wait for a 5 minute display bar to update
    • in electric mode - slowly accelerate to 6 mph for one, 100 MPG display bar
    • coast to a stop and wait for 5 minute display
    • repeat until all bars show 100 mpg
    Shortcut: force charge the battery then turn off the car and start it up again for this trick. However, you'll have a small mileage number, like mine.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog C'Mere Sheepie!

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    But why Bob? I dont want the display saying that kind of mpg unless I am actually getting that on my daily drives. I wont get that going to work/home but wish I did for sure. Why do you want your display to say that if it isnt true?
     
  3. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry EPA MPG #'s killer

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    I recently achieved this on a 15 mile trip on actual local roads(5/10/2008). This was after the car had sat while I was refueling at a gas station. Scanguage data read 113mpg for this trip.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. hiremichaelreid

    hiremichaelreid New Member

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    >This relies on a latent defect of the MFD display: a single 100 MPG instantaneous display bar becomes the 5 minute average.

    Interesting, but just a trick. I wonder why they don't do a true average of the 5 minute periods ? Do I need a scangauge or a laptop to get true averages ?

    Anyway, I'd be interested to know the TRUE average efficiency on a route driven at 15-20 MPH, especially if it's a real road where you can go at that speed without disturbing other traffic.

    Of course I'd also be interested in knowing some high FE routes where I could enjoy a nice. low speed, stress free break-in of my new Prius, perhaps in Vermont or northern New York state. With regen, coasting and perhaps 70% ICE output going up, perhaps a hilly route in Vermont would work well.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Which one is true?

    The top one clearly shows 99.9 MPG for 10 miles yet the 5 minute bars show something else. The bottom one clearly shows six, 5 minute bars of 100 MPG and because it was done all electric, the actual mileage was much higher. I've simply documented how to achieve either result including the preparation.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry EPA MPG #'s killer

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    In case anyone actually believes that this can't be done without a "trick," I would be more than happy to take anyone for a ride and show them in person how I did this. Warning: My 113mpg may be exceeded if the weather gets any warmer than it was when I originally did this. In fact, I have achieved closer to 120 on this same trip in the past.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The tricks are vehicle preparation, route planning, operation and weather, which I've listed. Once individuals have achieved their "personal best" the pressure is off and we can enjoy our wonderful vehicles.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. brick

    brick Active Member

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    I don't see why paying attention to vehicle preparation, route planning, and operation are such a bad thing to practice on a daily basis. My tires need air, my engine needs oil, speeding and aggressive driving are not my cup of tea, and the more efficient route to work happens to be a bit shorter and a more relaxing drive than taking the highway. I don't understand the dichotomy between safe/efficient driving practices and enjoying the vehicle. To me they are one and the same, no pressure involved except at the business end of my air compressor.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    At these levels, it is a question of being practical. It is the degree of each step with all of them combined. For example, driving 18 mph or ignoring the warm-up and forced charge fuel burn may not be practical for everyone. Often knowing you have maxed the MFD is enough to take this off the table but we are also headed into summer.

    In the northern hemisphere, we are two months away from August, perfect hot weather for a driving test. In the USA, the July 4th Independence and September 1st, three day, weekends are opportunities for mileage driving tests. For example, an average speed of 20 mph would require 50 hours of driving:

    • 8 hrs - Friday evening
    • 16 hrs - Saturday
    • 16 hrs - Sunday
    • 10 hrs - Monday
    An average of 90 MPG would let our ~11.2 gallon usable fuel, North American Prius drive 1,000 miles and join the 1k mile club ... without having to run out of gas (carry a spare 1 gal. container on Monday.) But we don't have to go that far. Just take enough time to demonstrate the vehicle capabilities and take a photo for an avitar ... then enjoy.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. brick

    brick Active Member

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    What? I'm sorry, Bob, but you've lost me. In what way does driving the car for 30 minute, resetting the MFD, then driving around a parking lot for 25 minutes at 18mph demonstrate anything remotely useful about the car? Do you really think that people drive for efficiency just to get a photo? If so, you have badly missed the point.
     
  11. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry EPA MPG #'s killer

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    I would have to agree with brick. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I have driven around just to get a good number and those times were soon after I got the car in May of last year. I get my numbers during my commutes to and from work and running various errands such as getting groceries, going to and from Church, taking the kids to various places etc. on actual roads in real life traffic situations and not in parking lots or test tracks.
     
  12. rpiereck

    rpiereck Regenerator

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    I did this one on real roads too, began downhill (that helped!) and did a lot of P&G and using the stealth mode; I did not zero the average as I only do that when I refuel, in retrospect I should have zeroed it for the run:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Actually it is basic engineering testing. There are two parts to the 'tricks' ... those that demonstrate how the display, the bars, work and those that demonstrate Prius performance.

    The MFD bar trick came from investigating my 2003 Prius MFD accuracy and one happy accident when I was in a drive-in food line and saw the 100 MPG bars propagate. The ragged bars even with 99.9 MPG consumption shows a latent defect in the bar logic that hopefully has been corrected in the NHW20. In contrast, the consumption numbers are quite accurate. Knowing the MFD bars in an NHW11 are inaccurate makes it a lot easier to pay attention to the consumption numbers.

    The performance characteristics of my hybrid have never been as well documented as the performance characteristics of my old Cherokee 140 airplane. So I've become a Prius 'test pilot' and conducted a number of tests that hold as many elements constant as possible and vary just one at a time. This data allows me to make informed decisions that tradeoff speed for performance and identify problem areas. It also has a practical application, vehicle diagnostics.

    Recently someone came to this forum complaining about a loss of mileage. Many folks listed the most likely failure modes and the user continued to report, "nope, still broke." So I asked them to do two simple, fixed speed, 20-30 minute driving tests around flat loops. If their numbers came within the range of my MPG vs MPH plot, the diagnosis is simple, "Your vehicle is performing as expected." It is really hard to fix a vehicle that is not broken.

    I think the real difference is to compare and contrast instructive MFD displays with instructive text with just MFD displays lacking enough information to replicate the results. Even if the text is as obvious as "coast down a hill," at least there is enough information that anyone can replicate the experiment. That is the engineering way.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry EPA MPG #'s killer

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    Bob, please don't take offense at my question, but I'm confused at what you are trying to get at. Are you saying that the only way to max out all of the 5-min. bars is to cheat with a trick? Also, are you trying to say 100+mpg can't be achieved on regular roads or that the numbers are useless unless they are done on a test track under strictly controlled conditions? Again, I'm not trying to be purposely controversial but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with this thread.

    As far as testing goes, on the last several fill-ups, my Scanguage has been off by less than .05 gallons as compared to the reading on the pump at my local station.
     
  15. douglas001001

    douglas001001 smug doug

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    I've had 5/6 bars a couple of times on drives home from work.

    The hardest part is not knowing when the 5 minute segments end, I would suspect that you would want to time the first glide to be at the beginning of the 1st 5 minute segment, then time the 5 minute segments to end at the end of a glide. Do this to avoid a more pulse than glide scenario in a 5 minute segment.

    Diamondlarry what speed ranges do you use?
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Hi Larry,

    There is nothing to take offense at. We're discussing a technique, a technology. Nothing more or less.
    I have demonstrated that the NHW11 Prius MFD display has at least two flaws in the bars:

    • actual 99.9 mpg mileage may not show up as solid 100 MPG bars
    • the bars appear to use some 'sampling' every 5 minutes and a single 100 mpg value fills for the whole interval
    It is my hope that these flaws have been corrected in the NHW20 MFD and the data I've seen suggests they have.
    I'm listing the steps any Prius driver can go through to achieve 100 MPG on just about any warm day of the week (or with a thermistor hack, in 50F weather.) This is reproducible and requires no more or less skill than the items already listed.
    It is purely instructional ... a cookbook that allows anyone who feels the need to demonstrate high mileage to "max out their display." Usually, having achieved some personal best, they can then relax and not be quite so "driven."
    Sounds like a fine product.

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry EPA MPG #'s killer

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    Since I try to stay on country roads as much as possible, my speed rarely ever goes above 40mph so I can glide with the engine off as much as possible. When I glide, I try not to ever go below 20mph since it's nearly impossible to accelerate without yellow arrows going to the wheels(assist) if you drop below 20mph.

    As far as getting maxed 5-min. bars go, I just glide with the engine off as much as I possible can. Since it is an average of the past 5 minutes it doesn't seem like it would matter too much when the glide occurred. As for taking pictures of a screen full of 100mpg bars, I've only taken a couple of those. Since I usually go way over 100mpg a screen like that is not a very accurate picture of what I do. I would like to see the screen reconfigured so that a bar was taller and the maximum would be closer to 200mpg. As the screen is now, all yellow bars only look cool but really don't mean much.
     
  18. bulletprooffool

    bulletprooffool Junior Member

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    If you ended up in the same place you started and did not stop anywhere or see anything new, then the drive was pointless. You achieved ZERO miles per gallon (even though your pretty display says otherwise), you wasted a bunch of fuel, and you did something that is totally against the whole ethos of an environmentally friendly car?

    Nice display though and I can see the appeal in wanting to produce one like that . . though I'd be inclined to do it by doing a siteseeing trip to the top of a very long hill and then simply driving back down the hill in P&G mode most of the way, with EV for the uphills?
     
  19. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry EPA MPG #'s killer

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    I would have to agree with you; a drive such as you described would be pointless. I try to achieve the best I can every time I go somewhere. That would include errands and my work commute. My goal is always to improve my skills every time I drive. I once heard a saying that goes something like this: "If you are not green and growing then you are ripe and rotting." I would rather be constantly trying to improve than to get comfortable and stop trying.
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The "Nice display" is reward enough and fortunately, the scripts I've described do not take a lot of time or fuel. But I am curious, does your opinion also extend to the Prius and Insight marathon drives?

    Do you also condemn the marathon drives that were 100 times longer as "... wasted a bunch of fuel, and ... something that is totally against the whole ethos of an environmentally friendly car?"

    Bob Wilson