Is it worth it?

:angel: Bravo F8L for redeeming yourself...this is a much better way to educate people. I appreciate the knowledge you have shared. Thanks for taking the time to do so.

 

Supply is not the problem, never was, the current price is US government, oil company and oil "traders" created.

A 2004 Business Journal report, this offer was offered again after Katrina:
Benicia refinery owner says no to Saudi offer - East Bay Business Times:
A pledge by the Saudi Arabian government to invest in the development of two new oil refineries in the United States was met with relative indifference from the nation's largest oil refiner.

Mary Rose Brown, a spokeswoman for Valero Energy Corp., says the current economic situation does not justify an investment in new oil refineries even with financial support from the Saudis. That's the case because the company can still purchase existing refineries for as little as 10 percent to 20 percent of replacement costs.

On April 27, Saudi Arabia's Minister of Petroleum and Mineral Resources, Ali bin Ibrahim Al-Naimi, made a pledge of support while speaking at the U.S.-Saudi Relations and Global Energy Security conference. The event was sponsored by the U.S.-Saudi Arabian Business Council and the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

"On this occasion, let me state emphatically that Saudi Arabia is willing and ready to invest in two new refineries and their associated marketing facilities in the U.S. to help alleviate some of the bottlenecks in product availability," Al-Naimi said.

Al-Naimi said the offer to invest in new refineries in the United States is part of Saudi Arabia's pledge to keep oil prices between $22 and $28 per barrel to stabilize the world's oil market.


Bloomberg.com: India & Pakistan
May 22 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil rose to a record above $135 a barrel as OPEC ministers said they could do nothing to stop the rally that has more than doubled prices over the past year.

``We are not in charge anymore, Shokri Ghanem, Libya's top oil official, told Bloomberg Television. ``OPEC is producing as much as the market wants. It is speculation, it is geopolitics, it is dollar erosion'' behind the gains, he said.


Oil insiders say investors driving up prices by banking on fear of low supply | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Business News

You're paying way more for gasoline than common sense would suggest, and you might be surprised by who's to blame.

Not the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. It lost control of the markets 20 years ago. Not Big Oil. It contributes only a sliver of global oil supply. Not the government. The U.S. investment in oil is relatively small.

Each of these former powerhouses influences the market sometimes, but these days what's driving prices higher is a rush of new investors. From professional fund managers to regular people trying to make a buck, investors with no interest in actually owning oil are pouring billions of dollars into oil markets.

Those investors are banking on fears that it will become much more difficult and expensive to produce oil, and, eventually, the world might not have enough.

Gulfnews: UAE will boost oil output if necessary, says minister
Seoul: The UAE will boost oil output if necessary, UAE Minister of Energy, Mohammad Bin Dhaen Al Hamli, said on Sunday.

"We are always happy to put more oil in the market if the market needs more," Hamli said. He declined to say whether output will increase in June.

THINK ABOUT THIS, BE LOGICAL AND INTELLIGENT:
If two new major refineries were being built in the US right now, not even considering what they would have meant in 2004 or earlier, do you think the "speculators" would be able to raise prices as much as now?

 

The big Prius advantage over conventional cars is gas mileage around town. Figure on about double the gas mileage.

Let's put it this way. Every time you put gas in a Prius, the total dollars it is costing you is about the same as the dollars you are saving if your old car had half the gas mileage.

Last night, I put $8 in the tank. The Prius just saved me $8 vs my old 25 mpg car. If my old car had been 15 mpg, the Prius would have saved me $16. That's why everybody wants a Prius.

 

On the subject of oil prices, you know it's not supply and demand. Just look at the gas prices in your corner gas station changing every day with the oil futures price.
That's been going on for quite awhile, now. The gas prices change daily. The oil companies are charging prices today for a speculative price of oil tommorrow--which depends on which way the wind blows.

The Government has to intervene here. Oil is a vitally important commodity for the economy, and it's price should reflect true supply and demand. Get the price out of speculation.

 

Since there was an oil man as president, and an easy majority of republicans in both houses from 2001-2006, why don't you tell us why we aren't drilling in ANWR.
Also, if we were, how much oil do you think we would get?
Did you realize most Alaskan oil is exported?

 

That would require a level of intelligence to investigate and find the truth, which is really not in most Republicans and Neo-Cons. Alaska oil is set up to help the West Coast, any excess, which is most of it, can be sold to any place the oil companies want to, they own it, thus most Alaskan oil is exported. Guess where more Alaskan oil will go.

 

I second that. I especially liked the part about the New York City watershed and the short video.

 

Thank you and FL_Prius_Driver. I know that I brushed passed some other very obvious points but I still have a lot to learn, as we all do. Knowing that people like you are actually reading what is written on these forum pages makes me more conscious of what I say and how I present that dialog. Unlike a lot of academics (of which I hope to become) I grew up in some pretty ghetto areas and find it hard to subdue the "quick angry response" and instead type out what is already in my head which is more productive. I realize I've highjacked the thread and for that I am sorry but I want to thank you for helping me to grow as an individual.

On a side note, I hope each of us here realizes the implications peak oil will have on our country and how even the wonderful hybrid vehicles we drive will not have a profound impact on our total oil consumption. We need to do more and faster if we are going to avoid economic turmoil and a drastic reduction in standard of living. We've taken a step in the right direction by buying a Prius but we have more work to do so lets get on it and steer this country in a new direction! :usa2:

 

If you get an $18k 2009 Matrix, I'm pretty darn sure it will be the base model with 1.8L engine, plastic hubcaps and lamo stock audio system.

A $27k Prius should have the JBL audio, backup camera and bluetooth capabilities, all things that base Matrix won't have.

Sunnyvale Toyota was advertising the Prius 3rd package, pretty sure, for $24,888, so just over $27k OTD.

Last I checked, S'vale Toyota was out of Prius' as was Hayward. A massive dealer in Milpitas had about 5 in stock last week (they have 120 Corollas and tons of regular cars in).

I like the current Prius but don't need a new car. I hope the 3rd generation fixes its slight lack of power climbing steep hills (we've got 'em the SF Bay Area), and brings adjustable driver seat height and telescopic steering wheel.

 

I've never encountered a hill I thought problematic in the Prius and with the exception of Lombard st. I doubt there are any that a person would drive up with any high frequency.

The other two on your list are debatable. I'm 6'3" and have zero issues with the seats or the steering wheel. Honestly unless someone is over 6'5" or really overweight I do not see these as deal breakers when there are so many other benefits.

 

FWIW, I rented a spankin' new 2009 Matrix XRS (150 mi on ODO!) for 3 days. Having the 2.4L motor, this Matrix has acceleration the Prius cannot touch..jab the pedal and the Matrix will take off (auto tranny is nice).

Legroom between the front and back seats in the Matrix is awfully cozy. There is more legroom in the Prius, I found. Rearseat headroom is less in the Prius though.

More cargo capacity in the Matrix.

More front seat legroom in the Prius. The large shifter console limits legroom a good bit in the 'Trix.

I got 29 mpg mixed driving in the 'Trix and almost 31 mpg in a 50 mile measure with it, so it does better than the EPA estimates. But, it might suffer in short trips though.

I got at least 41.5 mpg in one days rental of a Prius. I'm not sure the tank was completely full when I drove it off the rental lot .. supposed to be and bars showed full, but ...

so, there's a little comparo

 

Seems like you have a few holes in the comparo.

#1 HP and 1/4mile times should not even be taken into account since we are looking for efficiency here. In reality there are very few situations where you need more acceleration than the Prius already has. Trust me, I'm no racing noob.

#2 How did you come up with your MPG figure for the Prius? Did you ensure all of the factors contributing to fuel efficiency were the same for each car? Did you ensure the tires were aired up to manufacture specs, drive the cars over the same terrain, same weather conditions and wind patterns, etc.?

#3 When comparing affordability did you consider long-term ownership and repair data? The MSRP of the Matrix XRS is nearly the same as the base Prius @ $21k

I'm interested in keeping things fair here, otherwise it sounds more like a sales pitch for a Matrix since the lots are empty of Prius'. Something many sales people try to do to make a sale. lol

According to the Toyota site:

Interior Room

Matrix / Prius
Head Room= 40.5" / 39.1"
Shoulder Room= 53.3" / 55.0"
Hip Room= 52.3" / 51.0"
Leg Room= 41.6" / 41.9

According to Motorweek:


ENGINE: XRS 2.4-liter 4-cylinder
HORSEPOWER: 158
TORQUE: 162 lb feet
0-60 mph: 7.9 seconds
1/4 mile: 16.2 seconds @ 93 mph
60-0 mph: 130 feet
EPA: 21 mpg city/ 28 mpg highway
Mixed loop: 27.3 mpg

From Motortrend:

2004 Prius


PERFORMANCE DATA
Acceleration
0-30 mph = 3.1
0-40 mph = 4.9
0-50 mph = 7.1
0-60 mph = 9.8
0-70 mph = 13.3
0-80 mph = 16.9
1/4 mile, sec @ mph17.04 @ 80.83

Braking
60-0 mph = 125ft.

 

csta is the first that I have seen that wants to name call and push his own political agenda. Most sites have a filter that controls these trolls ( sorry about the name but .....). I think that that is time consuming and since this site is about the Prius and learning about it I think it would be nice if csta would drop it. Register under a new name and start over so you can learn something.

 

$.45 per gallon taxes, boy that is excessive! Let's see, we have roads to build and maintain. Let's see the oil in the ground is "owned" by the American People. Shouldn't they get paid some royalty for it's extraction? (Not to mention the damage done by the exploration and extraction business)

You are one of these people who have drunk the cool-aid that we can drill our way out of the energy shortage. Not to mention the consiquences of global climate change, (which I have a hunch you don't believe in) drilling our way out of the "energy shortage" is a fools choice. Almost ALL reputable science tells us that we are indeed in a crisis. The way we have been doing things for a century will not continue to work. It's time to think for ourselves and not let politicos and talk show hosts think for us. Read, listen, participate and get educated.

Icarus

 

When I drove the Prius from the rental lot, should have headed straight to the gas pump for a more accurate reading.

I found it to have adequate acceleration for all situations. It's a really neat little car and I liked it a lot. Being 6ft 2in tall, it was tough to get comfortable - ergos felt a bit off to me. I might flip out if Toyota does not put the drivers seat height pump handle on the 3rd Gen, along with telescoping steering wheel.

I took a drive out of San Jose to Santa Cruz through the mountains. Some parts of the highway get pretty steep. Don't think I floored the accelerator, but seemed the Prius didn't have any extra juice in the steepest parts. I'd like to hear from others if this seems wrong.

But I was impressed how it zings down the highway. Can't wait to see the 3rd Gen. at the auto shows this Fall.

 

Prius minimizes use of petroleum and air pollution, and it is highly reliable. Anyone who wants to minimize their direct costs of ownership of a car should buy a used car.

Here's a short description of how much drilling in ANWR would help, according to the Energy Information Administration of the US Department of Energy:
Green Car Congress: EIA: ANWR Oil Production Would Peak at 780K Barrels per Day

If ANWR were open now it would reduce the price of oil by less than $1 per barrel, and save a few cents per gallon of gas. Big frickin' whoop. Drilling in ANWR to ease oil prices is like a fat man drilling a new hole in his belt, and he's almost out of belt.

 

If you weren't so pathetic you would be funny. Perhaps you should build an extension to your bunker and stockpile barrels of petroleum. To believe that providing more fuel for the SUV crowd is the answer is quite neocon. If anyone should be taken with a grain (large grain) of salt it is you.

With that out of the way we just got our 2008 Prius a couple of weeks ago, and just in time too. There were four at the dealership when we arrived and one left when we signed the papers for ours and traded in the BMW. That last one was gone the next day. In the short two weeks we have owned it my feelings about it have gone from dubious to ecstatic.

My wife has wanted one for some time now but I was tough to convince. Well, she was right and we both love our new spud. My only complaint is the understeer and somewhat loose handling on the highway. But the three series was designed to handle superbly and I'm sure I'll get used to the spud.

 

look at your city mileage.. a well driven prius will double just about any other car on teh market for city driving.. plus, it holds it's resale amazingly well.. you can't find a used prius right now! You will never regret the prius.. and think of this: for no other fact that when you're in reverse, at a light, in a drivethrough..etc, etc, etc.. you're not burning fuel AT ALL.

 

Yes, It's Worth It!

 

or you can spend 1500 for a beater that is 4cyl is gets 30mpg. or you can spend 15k and build an EV. or you can what if everything. gas prices might drop, might not. im not a part of the illuminati, so i can only speculate. there are lots of reasons why you should and shouldnt buy a prius. you just have to weigh that out. i still dont own one yet, but i sure do want one.