Saw a Hybrid Tahoe yesterday

x2

 

*blush*

You're welcome Ailu. A lot of our views tend to be so polarized due to a difference in education on the various subjects and/or political ideologies. If you ever have questions regarding environmental concerns, especially with regards to the Sierra Nevada, feel free to post em up in the correct forum or shoot me a PM. I eat breath and sleep the stuff but am wise enough to realize there are real human and economic concerns that have to be studied as well. That is why the "tripple bottom line" is such an important thought model.

 

How so?

I admit, I like the simplicity of the HSD. Using GHS instead in a car-sized vehicle would mean adding a second planetary gear set and some disc clutches (but those are all traditional automatic tranny components, common as dirt). On the other side, you get to downsize MG1, MG2, and the inverter because a higher proportion of delivered power will be taking the mechanical path.Toyota certainly didn't shy away from adding complexity to the vehicle in other areas, even creating some very unusual parts just for the purpose. Why would a competitor never think of putting a slightly more complex GHS transaxle on a car, to get more than one point of optimum mechanical efficiency?

I do not know, I see emissions as mostly a matter of the ICE and ICE management. If you were building a GHS car (just for purposes of discussion) I don't see why you couldn't use an ICE much like the Prius's and manage it much the same way.

-Chap

 

The larger vehicles are much safer. I have had 2 friends get into horrible accidents in the last 3 years. The family driving the Tahoe came out safe and sound. Unfortunately the friends driving the eco-box lost a family member. I could put my foot straight through the door of a prius the metal is so thin. The pillars explode up on impact. I have a friend on the Highway Patrol here in Cali and he said the small tin boxes don't fair very well at all in a horrific accident. The larger the car/truck the better the chances.

Why is it the media has Americans fighting against Americans? This brainwashing by the Liberla media has to stop. Look at this thread. People are making fun of others for driving what they want and condeming them for not driving a sardine can.

Try squeesing your entire family and pets into an eco-box with camping gear etc for one week. It makes me sick to my stomach seeing the condemnation going on in America. Why are we fighting against each other? If you can afford something good for you. By all means drive it and enjoy life.

 

Anecdotal evidence is flimsy at best. Go look up real crash testing data and videos and then come back on here and tell us that the larger vehicles are always better in crashes than the smaller ones. I have a friend that works for CHP in LA and he disagrees. See how this works?

That is part of the problem. Quit using general media as a source for information and data. It is very evident how out of touch with reality someone is when they base their opinions on some radio talk show or news network.

Because this happens every week for the average American? No, the average American will spend MUCH more of her/his time commuting and running basic errands than she/he will camping or towing 6,000lb loads. That argument is completely rediculous and has been shot down over and over.

At this point I'm going to stop responding to you because it is obvious you are not on the same page as the rest of us and we are getting no where. Be well.

 

So are you saying a single person in Prius still greener than 3 people in 21mpg car?

 

Rarely will there be 3 people in the 21mpg car often enough to make that comparison. We're talking national averages where most people drive alone, especially commuting. Using your example you can stick those 3 people in a Prius, comfortably, and be even better off. This is simple math and has nothing to do with brand loyalty towards Toyota. My last 4 vehicles were from General Motors.

Come on now, you have to come up with something more creative than that.

 

"larger vehicles are much safer" is 1 thing I hear pretty frequently when discussing cars. To a certain point anything can be argued down to subjectivity. But the larger the vehicle/the heavier the vehicle the harder to control, stop, maneuver while many roll much more easily.

I had a close family friend get hit by a drunk driver in a truck while he was in his sedan and he died on impact. Truck guy was okay. Driving a small car and being rammed by a large vehicle is certainly not very safe for the occupants in the smaller vehicle. So in that scenario relative safety is subjective. BTW that driver, while safe, was charged with manslaughter

 

Depends on your definition of comfort. I used to own 2005 and drive 3 people. Sorry, it was NOT comfortable.

Before you make blanket statements like "most people", you should consider that

1. Owning Prius does not mean you don't pollute. You should be comparing distance driven when comparing cars. Taking long trip in Prius may be worse than driving SUV short distance.
2. Owning Prius does not mean energy spent heating/conditioning home suddenly disappears. 3000 ft home pollutes a lot.
3. Flying in an airplane offsets any Prius ownership. Not taking trip to Hawaii or Thailand may produce better results than switching to a hybrid.

 

That's just a smokescreen. You have to assume that the rest of a person's life remains constant when comparing cars. Of course the amount of pollution from a Prius on a 200 mile trip is greater than the amount of pollution caused by an SUV driving around the block, but buying an SUV isn't going to stop you from driving long distances.

 

None of what you wrote about has anything to do with my argument nor does it have anything to do with this thread.

If you cannot fit 3 people in a Prius comfortably then there are other issues regarding the size of those 3 people. Again, this is not a world average (weight or height).

1. You are not comparing apples to apples. A short distance driven in a Prius is less polluting than a short distance driven in a large SUV. The same goes for a long commute comparing both vehicles. You should not compare different commutes (distances) to argue you your point.

2. What does that have to do with this thread again?

3. What does that have to do with this thread again? Of course, nothing! Because you should be doing everything your can to reduce your pollution output.

It is very obvious that you are in this thread or this forum to push an agenda. This thread is based on the hybrid GM SUV and its shortcomings. I did not see any Prius owner claiming a pollution-free lifestyle because they own a Prius, as if the car somehow mitigated every other aspect of their life. I did notice some claiming to be polluting less because they own a Prius and I would think that if they changed nothing about their lifestyle except a switch from an SUV to Prius that they would indeed be polluting less.

 

Car comfort does not necessarily mean "not enough space". It also mean, for instance, quality of seats (which are not Prius strong suit).

Agenda? I don't think I have one. This thread appears to be about how one driving GM Hybrid really should have bought Prius. And that no one should be driving SUVs (some even proposed banning them). Which is odd since there are many regular cars with worse mileage than SUVs and it all depends on how much are driving (and generally polluting). So before passing the judgement on someone in Tahoe, all variables should be considered.

 

Perhaps owner is not going to drive long distances so they can afford low mileage car? How do you know?

 

I cannot argue that one. I have no problems with the seats but I've seen enough complaints about them to realize they may be an issue for some.

Affordability in fuel should not be the criteria in which we judge which vehicle we choose. We should be buying the most fuel efficient choice that fits our true needs. I realize that is not practiced by most but that is what we need to do if we are to try and reduce our negative impact. So even if the person only commutes 10 miles a day that person should still choose a Camry, Malibu, Prius etc. over a vehicle that gets 14mpg. This is very helpful in terms of pollution and a reduction in fuel demand.

After all the going back and forth in this forum I hope we all realize how our fuel usage for personal transportation accounts for small percentage of the actual fuel used per year in this country. I once heard that if everyone in the U.S. drove a Prius (as a personal car) we would reduce our national fuel usage by only 2% (can anyone confirm this?), yet in terms of actual pollution reduction and shear number of barrels of oil used this is a large amount so it is definately a worthwile venture. Efficient public transportation and a reduction in urban sprawl is the next obvious step.

 

As per my previous post on this thread, I have serious issues with the "true needs" argument.

_MY_ "true" need, (covering 90% of my driving) is to get from home to work and back. I _could_ take public transit, and achieve my "need". I could even walk a mile and a half to get groceries (and take the bus back). In fact, we (a family of 3 at the time) did just that for two years. And it fulfilled our _needs_. But it also sucked big time. Too inconvenient (but still, doable) + not that much cheaper. So we got a car. And my situation is no different than that of many other Prius (and non-Prius) owners. So... we __should__ (your term) dump our Prii and just take the bus, as per your logic. And rent a Prius for those 10% rides.

Exact same logic you apply towards non-Prius vehicles can be applied towards the Prius - ride your bicycle, walk, run, don't drive.

And speaking of "reducing negative impact" (your words) and "true needs" - I'm yet to hear from back from a single environmentally-conscious Prius owner regarding the _true need_ for their Prius bra (made (in China, god knows using what "clean" process) out of plastic - an oil/petroleum byproduct) - car runs just as great without it.
- Same goes for other items which seem to fill no "true" need - from 50" TVs to iPods and iPhones - all with a huge (aggregate) impact on the environment (anyone say China? toxic metals? plastic?)

--- mind you, I'm not saying people should focus on their "true needs" (as you define them), but I am applying YOUR logic. And yet you're content with focusing our arguments solely on SVUs.

Humans have needs that go beyond survival. And fulfilling those needs is sometimes just as important. And no, we should not (IMHO) buy the most fuel efficient car, if we think it is ugly, uncomfortable, and cannot tow our boat (I don't own a boat, and have never towed anything in my life). Denying the needs of others (by using the general "oh, but we can't let their silly wants and needs ruin our planet) makes lots of sense - just make sure beforehand that you get rid of all of YOUR wants/needs that are not exactly the greenest (starting with the Internet, which contributes significantly and directly to pollution and energy waste).

I'm a proud Prius owner. I love the car. I love the fact that it's as green as it gets, and that I get great mileage from it. But I'm no saint, and neither are most of you. I _could_ install a more efficient furnace at home, I _could_ grow my own veggies or buy organic, I _could_ do without my Archos 605 media player (made in China...), I could NOT buy at Walmart (where more than 70% of all items imported from China to the US end up, as per National Geographic) and so on - and so could all of you.

I hate SUVs, I will never buy one. But the arguments presented on this thread are hypocritical and problematic, unless you somehow think the Prius is exempt from the same logic.

--- Oren

p.s.: comments re China are not meant to be derogatory against the Chinese. as a result of OUR consumption habits, China now manufactures most of the goods we consume, at a terrible environmental and (sometimes) personal cost to those involved.

 

I feel the reason why they aren't moving is twofold, one the price and two the fact that less SUV's are selling.

I still cannot get over the insanely large hybrid premium on that vehicle. I have few problems with the vehicle itself for someone who needs it. A person who was doing work where they needed a large enclosed space to move cabinets/tools/supplies or other things could use this vehicle is it was not priced so high and 'luxed up' so much.

If it was an entry level Tahoe and the premium was like $6000 it would sell.

What could be done to 'fix' the Tahoe hybrid?? Sell it to contractors as a stripped model and put in the high powered electrical outlets the original hybrid pickup GM made had. Let it go out the door for $39,000 or less. This is a minor reconfig and it could be done quickly.

Dropping the engine size would be a plus of course too. That would bump up the mpg to something more respectable.

PS- Where the hell is my hybrid minivan or small Tacoma/Colorado sized hybrid pickup truck?