Things cops want you to know...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alnilam @ Dec 11 2006, 03:38 AM) [snapback]360282[/snapback]</div>

I have received at least 6 warning tickets. One time I was stopped for speeding and given a warning. My excuse was the truth: Late getting to the airport. Second time about a month later I was stopped again for speeding in approx the same area with the same excuse. The cop asked me if I had received any warning recently and I told the truth about the last warning. He said the previous cop had put a mark on my registration to indicate the warning I received. I got another warning since I told the truth.

Another time I was stopped for speeding on my birthday. The cop started writing out the ticket and I asked if there was any chance for a warning since it was my birthday. Gave me back my paperwork and said slow down.

Most my encounters with the police have been positive and I have been treated more than fairly. I have fought a number of tickets in court and won, so I don't always get the warning.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(koa @ Dec 21 2006, 04:02 PM) [snapback]365273[/snapback]</div>

Any pointers on how to win the court cases?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Dec 21 2006, 11:01 AM) [snapback]365224[/snapback]</div>

Can you say police corruption? Why should police officers be above the law?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Dec 21 2006, 04:01 PM) [snapback]365334[/snapback]</div>

They shouldn't.

What's amusing is, I believe most cops think it's our fear of their authority/their ability to fine us/detain us/make our lives miserable which keeps us in line.

How naive, and expecially, how arrogant.

My respect for the law itself -- despite those who enforce it -- is what governs my actions.

This talk about special privileges and whatnot just cheapens everything upon which our society is built...and makes me pity more than anything, the officers who indulge themselves in this behaviour.

 

Natalie: Corruption is everywhere. And so is privilege. I am not saying this to brag, and with 3 speeding tickets in a lifetime, you can see I don't abuse it, but if you have money a speeding ticket is almost meaningless. You pay the fine and laugh (not in the cop's face!) and if your insurance goes up, you laugh at that also. If you're in politics, you get your party's nomination because of who you know or who your daddy is. Jobs and promotions also very often get handed out via the old boy network.

On the other side, I've met guys in jail who had been there for 6 months on relatively minor offenses (as indicated by the relatively low amount of bail) but since they had no money for bail or collateral for a bondsman, had to sit it out, where someone with money on the same charge would have paid bail and never seen the inside of a jail cell, and then paid a good lawyer to get them off. And to a poor person, a speeding ticket can mean missing a few meals.

Sure, it's corrupt when a cop lets a fellow cop off. But nothing is fair in a capitalist country where destitution poverty lives beside obscene wealth.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Dec 21 2006, 07:44 PM) [snapback]365458[/snapback]</div>

Agreed it IS a mess...but, still, I cannot accept this sort of relativism. Even less, it being brought up in polite conversation as though it's something to be proud of.

As far as employment...I've certainly been messed with by the old boy network, bumped my head repeatedly against the glass ceiling...

And, as I said, for me it's not the penalties which encourage my adherence to the law, it's my respect for the stability it provides...and fear (especially for a woman) of the alternatives. Anarchy or social disorder is a losing proposition for anyone but the strongest of the strong.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Dec 21 2006, 05:49 PM) [snapback]365488[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it was rather surprising to see it refered to as just another (acceptable) perk of being a cop.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Dec 21 2006, 11:01 AM) [snapback]365224[/snapback]</div>

Officers are given discretion in who to give tickets to. I think this is fine: I don't want to see illegal lane change tickets given out to those that swerve to avoid a wreck. Removing discretion would mean every law is "zero tolerance", and as the schools have shown us, "zero tolerance" equals "zero intelligence". They should be able to weigh the situation and make a decision for these minor offenses (they are compelled, by law, to arrest when they see a real crime done).

But officers who use their discretion badly, to cover up or reward other officers who break the law, are unethical. The fact that every officer does this, and that it is endemic, just shows that there is much work to be done to remove the institutional corruption in our police departments.

 

The problem I have with cops is that they don't know how to drive, yet they spend much of their time evaluating our driving.

Example, just today: a police car behind me, so I observe the speed limit exactly. It is raining and I notice he does not have his headlights on. That is his first infraction: in New York, it is the law that headlights must be on while driving in the rain. The cop pulls around me and proceeds by me. Two more infractions: no turn signals during two lane-changes, and he is 15 mph over the limit!

I told all my kids: drive defensively, drive well, and for heaven's sakes don't drive like cops, they simply don't know how to drive!

Harry

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Dec 21 2006, 04:01 PM) [snapback]365224[/snapback]</div>

show
Pinto, you need to just chill a little. You are making accusations from your assumptions from someone else's comments.

Some departments pass out "courtesy" cards. I don't particularly agree with them but they "hint" that the bearer is a family member or friend of a cop and should be given a "break". They are unenforceable and don't MAKE any cop do anything.

All police have DISCRETION. If they didn't, then every time you are caught doong the smallest violation, you would get a ticket or arrested. Do you REALLY want that? Well, that same DISCRETION means some people get the breaks and some don't. NO GOOD COP gives a break for SERIOUS crimes.

If you want the ability to help your friends out of minor things...then joion a police dept. From what I can tell, there is no reason you could not.

Your HATRED of cops is starting to show. (YES, I used the word hatred on purpose)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Dec 22 2006, 12:29 PM) [snapback]365783[/snapback]</div>

Even if they are unenforceable, what possible reason could there be for a police department to officially (by means of cards issued by the department) ask officers to "give a break" to friends and family members of cops???

The purpose of tickets is to punish people for illegal driving, on the theory that this will make people drive more safely, and in so doing prevent deaths, injuries, and damage to property.

When a department issues such cards, it's telling the bearer of the card, "You may drive illegally, and therefore unsafely, because you probably won't get a ticket as long as you have this card." In so doing they have subverted the very purpose of the traffic laws.

I appreciate that you, Karl, do not approve of this practice, so it sounds like we are in agreement on this one. But a police department that issues such cards is displaying a profound lack of concern for public safety and is apparently corrupt.

BTW, I have never requested a warning. On two occasions I was not paying attention, and on the third I was unaware of the speed limit in that block (which is not an excuse, merely an explanation) (the limit was lowered a block or two before the commercial street became a residential street) and on all three occasions I mailed in a check for the fine. On a fourth occasion I was stopped for going 5 mph over the limit, and given a warning. No "warning ticket," just a verbal warning.

Whether you are robbing a bank, doing nonviolent civil disobedience, or speeding, Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

 

Even if cops give every cop they pull over a warning that's probably still a very small amount compared to all the warnings they give out.

I do think the cops should set laser sweeps with the intention of only giving warnings up to a certain amount over the speed limit (say 20mph). I think warnings tend to slow you down just as much as a ticket and you feel really good about the cop who gave it to you. It certainly made my day when I got a warning.

I don't think many people go into the law enforcement profession because they know they won't get any more speeding tickets.

 

I just checked my lists of my "reasons to like; reasons to dislike" the police. "Condescending" wasnt yet on my loonngg list of reasons to dislike! . It is now.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ Dec 22 2006, 03:29 PM) [snapback]365783[/snapback]</div>

No, my hatred (to use your word) comes from the attitude that it's up to the individual officer to either honor or not honor the law. No, actually I don't want individual cops using their discretion to decide if I should get a ticket or not...and it's appalling to me that you'd think this would be a "benefit" to the average citizen.

I was told by one of my officer friends that his policy is to decide if he's going to write the ticket before he meets the person. That way, he's not susceptible to a pretty girl's sob story or some poweful guy's veiled threats.

If that's what you mean by discretion, then we're in agreement. But if the officer is waiting to talk to the person to see what they have to say for themselves...I simply don't see how the law can be at all evenhanded.

Say the cop doesn't like Blacks, and I'm black.
Say the cop doesn't like women, and I'm a woman.
Say the cop doesn't like...whatever...and I'm whatever.

So you're saying, that the hope is there are more "good" cops out there than "bad" cops out there? Problem is, your definition of "good" is just that: yours only.

I stand by my remarks, and the emotion behind them.

 

so.. what happens when you give a cop the middle finger.. I'm about to start this trend around here because most cops around here are kinda douche bags.... idiots who could barely pass high school. why are they our cops?... i don't know.

unfortunately san jose hires way too many idiots.

 

On this general topic, let me just toss this one in. True story:

On April 12, 2007, John Corzine, the governor of NJ, had a very busy day:

1. In the AM he attended the funeral of a police officer in nearby PA.
2. In the PM he was at a meeting in Atlantic City.

3. In the evening, Corzine was on his way to the meeting of radio jock Don Imus & the Rutgers U. women's basketball team to smooth out feathers after Imus called them "nappy-headed hoes" --

• The gov. was being driven in a state police SUV ...
• at 93 MPH on the 65 MPH Garden State Parkway ...
• by a state trooper with lights flashing ...
• with the gov. in the front seat without a seatbelt ...
• when a seemingly normal series of merges & lane-changes ...
• caught the speeding SUV by surprise ...
• causing it to swerve & tumble into the median ditch.

The governor was severely injured with many, many broken bones, but thankfully recovered. He issued a public apology & paid a $46 fine for not wearing a seatbelt.

I don't beleive that the police or the governer used good or safe judgement in that instance.

 

Police have discretion because only the officer on the spot can make decisions based on all the facts. Some offences there is no room for discretion, for example driving unregistered or unlicensed but some other offences like inadequately securing a load or failing to indicate a lane change might be more or less serious depending on the situation. The traffic on the road at the time, driving near a school when kids are arriving or leaving, country roads, vehicle speed etc all affect the seriousness of the offence. If you were to remove discretion an officer would be forced to report all offences big or small which would be a poor use of resources when there are more serious crimes to deal with.
A traffic breach can be dealt with in several ways: -
1. Ignored. If you have something to do and see a minor breach you may ignore it.
2. Follow up call. Record registration number and details of offence and call owner to discuss. No written report
3. Verbal warning. Intercept and discuss breach but no written report. Stop is recorded.
4. Written warning. Offence is recorded and may become an expiation notice if previously warned. Warning notice issued.
5. Expiation notice issued. Officer determines breach is serious enough that a fine is appropriate and necessary for behavioural change.
6. Report and court summons. A serious breach which must go to court.
7. Arrest. Person is a danger to themselves or the public and needs to be retained.

Some people seem to think options 1 to 4 shouldn't exist but can you imagine the lot of an enforcement officer if fines were issued for trivial offences? Fail to indicate a lane change at 4AM on a 2 lane carriageway when there are only 2 vehicles on the stretch of road is far less serious than the same breach at 8.30AM in the city on a 4 lane highway. There is the theory that if you look after the small things the big things look after themselves however this isn't the way I think about it.

People say a pretty girl shouldn't be treated any differently to a young man and they are right but there is the "attitude test". A belligerent young man is more likely to re-offend than a young woman who is showing regret for her indiscretion, which is more likely why the young woman gets a warning and the young man a ticket. That's the way I see it anyway. If I came across an argumentative young woman she would be as likely to get the ticket as the belligerent young man and a polite young man as likely to get a warning as the polite young woman.

There is only one way these "courtesy" cards would influence me is I would want to ring the relative officer and inform them of the predicament I have been placed in and if I was satisfied they would get a good punishment from the officer I might be swayed to issue a warning but otherwise they would be treated like any other offender. My goal is safe roads not fines, this can be an excellent deterrent to further offending. I know as a lad I was more frightened of my dad than the fine, he didn't hit me but the lectures were painful.

 

I think you already know the answer to your question. Never discount the alure of flashing lights, sirens, and Authority, as expressed by a badge and a gun

The remarkable ignorance of technology is a common feature of most officers, with some it's like a badge of honor. Either way, most cops are intensely distrustful of engineers, scientists, etc, which is sad as more crime is committed thanks to application of technology

I've provided consulting services to law enfocement twice in my professional career, never again. One was a class session on how to recognize technology used for kiddie porn: eg the at-the-time brand new SD cards, zip and jaz disks, etc

The session was supposed to last 45 minutes but I cut it short after less than 20. First of all, several buddies at the very back of the room were engaged in a humorous - to them anyway - discussion about how drunk one of them got the last weekend. The rest could quite frankly give a s*** what I was talking about

I finally stopped, asked "does anybody have any questions or comments at this point?" and very promptly all the uniforms got up and quickly got out. Well, f*** you too

The second and last time, was a one-on-one session with a cop who was to be involved in surveillance duty of a suspect. They had the court papers to authorize it, indeed I thought the department was going all out even getting in an "expert" (Yours Truly) to explain how to intercept cell phones. This is actually covered under CALEA Act

So their bright pupil really got off to a good start when the first thing out of his mouth after I shook his hand was "I'm only here because my supervisor wanted me here."

He seemed really offended that I was even there trying to patiently explain to him how to operate the equipment, even though he clearly couldn't even boot it up on his own. So I thought "f*** you too, pal" and wrapped that session up as soon as possible

I'll tell you, son, I wouldn't lift a finger for them if I was forced to. You can quote me on that too