Cheaper Stiffening Plate

Did BT get a patent? If so, did the Ebay seller violate it? Did BT get a copywrite? If so, did the Ebay seller violate that? If the answer is yes then to court they must go. If the answer is no then stop your whining.

 

also, I'm not sure again, but I think the burden of patent enforcement falls upon the patent holder and they may not be in a financial situation to press ahead with court costs, etc.

 

I don't see anyone whining here. I see people stating facts as they know them.

 

I wanted to try to stay out of this "discussion" but due to the overwhelming PM's and emails that I have received, I felt that I had to post a response and shed some light on this.

I first designed our BT Tech stiffening plate almost 4 years ago. The purpose of the design was to help the handling of my 2005 Prius and make it more stable on the highway. I did not intend to produce them for the public and it was only after I made a few that some of my Prius friends urged me to make them available.

I have had several design changes which improved the performance of our part over the past several years.

The person on Ebay probably purchased one of our plates and then tried to copy them. When they first posted this on Ebay, they stole the actual pictures of our product off of this site and even the product description verbatim!!

Anyone can take a piece of aluminum and drill 4 holes in it and attach it to the frame but ours has a lot more engineering into it. For example, all of our plates are CNC machined for an exact fit and finish with tolerances of .002".

All of our plates have been desgined to be as rigid as possible with the least amount of weight. We made our BT stiffening plate wider to provide more rigidity than what a stock sized plate would provide but this ment that we had to include the proper recesses to allow proper frame clearances. We include the proper recesses for a perfect fit.

We had a FEA (Finite Element Analaysis) performed and using this data we improved on its strength even further than with our original design. We use 7075-T6 aluminum which is one of the stiffest metals availabe and then hard annodize all of our plates to mil specs. NONE of these features are availabe on the Ebay copy.

We also include stainless steel with anti-seize coated bolts and washers along with a complete instruction sheet.

If one compares all of the features/engineering of our stiffening plate vs the Ebay fake, they will see that they are in fact NOT the same product as some are claiming it to be.

When Prius Chat members purchase products through the PC store, they are not only assured of getting the best quality products, they are also helping to support the running of the best Prius resource on the internet.

All of our BT Tech products that we manufacture for the Prius including our stiffening plate, strut tower brace and skid plate can ONLY be purchased through the Prius Chat online store and not found anywhere else... This includes Ebay!!

 

Now that makes a sensible argument towards the pruchase of the BT plate, thank you for that. Better quality, material, construction and R&D. OUTSTANDING

My point would be this. You don't have a valid argumant to tell someone not to buy something "cheaper" just because you don't like their business practice.... ok well maybe you do. BUT, that's not a good argument against the product.

Take ARCO for instance. You can say you don't like who runs ARCO so you wont buy their gas, but to say they copied their formula from Shell to sell it cheaper as the reason not to buy isn't really an argument, that's just their practice.

Steal is also a grey area in the business world. I would agree from what's been posted that the Ebayer acquired the plate and copied the literature. But I don't know all the facts, though these could very well be true, because I didn't see the original advert from BT or the Ebayer. But to say they stole would in fact be liable unless copywrite or patent laws were broken.

Here's what the arguement should have been. Don't buy the Ebay plate because it's an inferior product and you get what you pay for.

 

The OP seems very suspicious by posting his/her first and *only* time advancing a product recommendation.

I also checked out the Ebay product online and the only thing *similar* to the BT Tech product is:
Both are intended for the same function.
Both are aluminum
Both have holes matching the Prius underbody (for the 4 bolts)
Both come with 4 bolts and washers
Both are manufacturered larger than the original plate
Both are shipped to the purchaser

Despite the previous allegations of Ebay text/photo copycatting, common sense says it doesn't look to be worth any lawyers time in pursuing a case against this individual.

It's been unconvincing, by previous arguments, how this thick aluminum product is actively inferior to the BT Tech product. In other words, how it provides LESS performance when mated to a Prius underbody.

Personally, I like the asthetic design on the BT Tech product (which is really meant to provide strength while allowing the manufacturer to shave weight.)
I also like the BT Tech annodized surface and it's black color.
I like knowing that BT Tech spent much time, effort and money into the design of this product.
I like the fact that BT Tech supports the Prius community.

When the rubber meets the road (proverbially), historically the lower cost wins out, unless the lower cost product cannot begin to resemble the expected performance. But when performance figures are dictated by seat of the pants results the lines of separation become even more blurred.

Sidenote: The first time I noted a user-replaceable underbody stiffening plate was in the 74-79 unibody Mustang II.

ZC1

 

You've indicated how you believe it is "similar". Tell us how you believe it is not "similar".

 

I'm a believer in paying my way. Now I must admit I bought my BT tech plate second hand but have purchased several item from the PC shop and currently have an order with them. I have saved thousands using information on this forum (thanks Hobbit) so in effect I have actually saved much more than I have spent with the PC Shop, if buying stuff from PC costs a little more (which it doesn't) I don't mind because it keeps the site which is a very busy site going. I have reaped benefits now I help by using the PC store so others may be helped.

Do you think it is fair to recoup development costs?
BTW, there are many different grades of aluminium.
Untreated aluminium against steel in the presence of water and particularly salt will cause the steel to rust. Save a little on a cheap plate and pay for it in a few years. Please remember who you got the plate from when it happens.

Stuff from the PC shop is very competitively priced.

 

Not indications of belief, rather a short list of "online" observable similarities.

The similarities may not end with the list I've noted, as the short list I provided is a brief synopsis of viewing the alternative product, something I would encourage others to do.

Good statement, exactly the question I was implying.

Perhaps someone with performance information can clue us in to the differences when both products are mated to a Prius underbody.

ZC1

 

Ummmmm, didn't BT just do that in their post? Check it out again, good reading.

 

Perhaps you could cut-n-paste the operational performance of the product, I didn't see that in his post.

ZC1

 

Holy crap, are you serious?

I can't believe you are unable to reason your way through this.

All assertions based on vendor information.

BT - For example, all of our plates are CNC machined for an exact fit and finish with tolerances of .002"
Ebay - This plate might not necessary for 07 or 08 prius, since their chassis have not enduring rought road. But highly recommneded for any prius with 2-3 years in operation, the underbody chassis needs a stronger and tighter support.

BT - All of our plates have been desgined to be as rigid as possible with the least amount of weight.
Ebay - approx 2lb 14 oz on this plate

BT - We had a FEA (Finite Element Analaysis) performed and using this data we improved on its strength even further than with our original design.
Ebay - awaiting answer

BT - We use 7075-T6 aluminum which is one of the stiffest metals availabe
Ebay - the plate is made of 6061-T6 Alu-Alloy, it is an aircraft material. It yeild 35000psi and heat treated as well.

BT - then hard annodize all of our plates to mil specs.
Ebay - Surface Finish: Smooth surface

BT - We also include stainless steel with anti-seize coated bolts and washers along with a complete instruction sheet.
Ebay - Four M8-1.25X25mm STAINLESS socket screws included, no anti-seize and no instructions.

Do I have to do all the research around here?

 

Thanks for the post.

This descriptional information is already contained within the BT Tech post.
Again, I'm asking for operational performance when mated to a Prius underbody.

In other words, how does it perform vs. the competition?
and
why is the alternative plate not good enough, since it's price is 1/3 the BT Tech plate and will be a selling point.

ZC1

 

The question was how are they different. If you want to find out specific stress and performance questions then asks the sources. Here's the latest answer to my R&D question:

I initially made this plate for my 2006 prius, and many of my friends as well.
They are my R&D.

Based on the Toyota Prius carbon steel C1010 with through harden heat treatment spec,
We select the 6061-T6 alu-alloy which yield 35000 psi strength, with 2 inches thicken, 4 inches wide, 14 inches long, it is overkill compare with the stock OEM steel brace.
Your prius will starting to flex more and more after years of operation, so a stronger stiffer plate to support the underbody is a good idea.

This type of brace plates is widely available for Japan Prius as an aftermarket performance part, our design is very similar as many other JDM company like HKS, Trust, Tom's, Top Secrets.

We did best to keep the price at $49.99.
if you are not satisfied with my plate, I will refund total amount plus shipping for your time and inconvenience.

BT tech plate is a great choice if you want something nice and clean cuts.
Their price is very reasonable since CNC machinist charge $80 per hour plus tooling fee.

Best Regards

Phillip
June 06, 2008

 

7075-T6 aluminum has substantially higher tensile strength than 6061-T6, but it is far more brittle.

 

Sorry, but I'm not buying it. This is coming from the same loser who allegedly used BT's photos and text in their original Ebay ads. There's a sucker born every minute and I'm not one of them.