VW, I've given up on you now

You got to wonder what their objectives are. I say, their objectives are to compete with Prius.

Can Golf TDI hybrid beat or meet low emission of Prius? Not just CO2 but everything.

How about Cost? Remember, you need to add Diesel premium, electric component premium, and exhaust filters premium.

How about MPG? Durability and realiability? Acceleration? Quietness? etc...

Can Golf TDI hybrid pay for itself like the Prius?

I guess most of the answers came out to be NO, so they killed it.

 

Once upon a time I was a lifelong VW guy too. My first new car was a 75 Rabbit, I've owned a GTI, a Corrado, and finally an Audi A4. After each one of them I told myself I would never own another VW because of all the reliability issues, but japanese cars never seemed to have any peronality. Then I bought a used Miata to use in autocrossing. My A4 ended up staying home more and more as I drove the Miata. Funny thing was, the Miata was virtually trouble free even after beating it up at 20 or more autocrosses a year, while the A4 had virtually every item with a wire connected to it fail at some point.
Anyway, by 2005 my priorities had changed and I bought my first Prius. 3 years later I'm still happy with my choice. Even though it's one of the most complex cars on the road it's also one of the most reliable. And in it's own way it's just as much fun to drive as my A4 or Corrado were.

 

I'm also a VW guy, having owned 4 Jettas and a Passat Wagon. By extension I also love Audi, with a current A6 Wagon.

But VW has also let me down in their high MPG offerings. It seems like they were always the company with something awesome and innovative at the test center, but never put concept to consumer.
But my first 1985 Jetta did get 41 mpg (no airbags, AC, power anything including steering). We tend to forget that lots of cars in the early to mid 1980s got 40+ mpg highway.

My wife is getting the new Prius, and I'm going back to the Audi, which is a 1997 with the same JD Powers long term reliability rating as a 1997 Toyota.

The Audi A1 Metroproject is an incredible looking plug in concept with dual engined AWD, that perhaps VW will now actually make a reality for 2010.
I also contemplated waiting for the Jetta Sportwagen TDI this August, but then the EPA numbers came out quite low and we went for the Prius. Of course in real life it can easily do better than EPA.

 

Before I had my Prius I was driving a 2002 VW New Beetle... The car was subject to endless problems, 4 recall issues, a transmission that failed which left me stuck in park at a taco bell drive thru window for four hours (also a recall issues that I was never informed of until the car was towed to the dealership...) Never again would I even consider a VW... they are waaay overpriced, terrible reliability (one of the worst reliability ratings in the industry), poor to deplorable fuel economy, and terrible emissions... I still love my Prius as much after 40,000 miles as I did on the first day I got it... couldn't say that about the Beetle!

 

My wife owns a 2001 VW Beetle 1.8T, 102,000 miles on it and the engine runs great. But unfortunately everything but the engine is a complete POS. In this time we have had to replace the Transmission, Ignition coils, 2 new MAF sensors, both O2 sensors, waterpump (Plastic impeller broke), Camshaft chain tensioner, fuel pump relay, and various vacuum hoses. And that doesn't even count other problems such as the trunk doesn't like to latch if its below 30 degrees outside. If you have a VW you are lucky to go more then a 10 days without a check engine light. It should be required to sell them with the VAG-COM OBD II tool because I need it at least every other week to diagnose a new set of problems.

The good news is that I have become quite an knowledgeable about VW engines and have learned quite a bit.

 

:wave:

Once upon a time I was a lifelong VW driver as well. Drivers wanted. Farfegnugen. They had me.

My first car was an 87 Toyota Celica. Then I had a 1993 Jetta (red), then a 1995 Jetta (white), then a Colorado red 99 Passat, then a 2002 silver blue Passat, then a 2003 white Passat. Then the 2005 Explorer. 5 VW's.

What happened? I didn't like the last redesign of the Passat - it went from sporty to grandpa car. So I opted for an SUV, but the Toureg was financially out of my reach.

Somewhere deep down I still long for a lime-green beetle with flowered seats and a carnation in the vase.

 

read above post, I'll sell you a Lime-green Beetle. LOL

 

Are you selling both of your Jetta's because VW is not going to make a specific model that you want or because you got a form letter in reply to your email?

A Golf TDI Hybrid doesn't make sense from quite a few aspects. Like it or not, car manufacturers are in business to make money. As it has been noted above, by the time you factor the incremental cost of a diesel engine and hybrid components the vehicle will cost too much for the segment. Diesel hybrids have their place but compact cars is not it. Mercedes-Benz is currently testing a diesel hybrid for their S-Class. In this vehicle a $5K or $10K price increase is a small percentage of the $100K average price and equal to some of the other option packages. A similar price increase would raise the cost of a Golf by 50%.

BTW, VW is not abandoning hybrids. They just signed a contract to develop batteries with Sanyo:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...416/1148/rss25

Instead of a TDI VW's hybrids will use gasoline engines, most likely a version of their twin-charger technology.

Volkswagen Golf Turbo-Diesel Hybrid Too Expensive for Production : TreeHugger

( Note: I question the need for both a supercharger and a turbocharger when mated to a hybrid drivetrain. The advantage of the twin-charger technology is that the supercharger gives good low end torque when a turbocharger would just be spooling up. With an electric motor to boost the output in the lower RPM range the supercharger becomes redundant.)

If you are going to sell your VW's because you got a form letter back, then that is just childish. Do really expect any auto manufacturer has legions of trained personal that sit around just to reply to emails?

 

In 2005 I was given a VW Touran in Geneva for a rental. 7-passengers and a 1.6 liter engine. I tooled all around the alps in that thing including 2 passes over the Galibier and ended up around 38 mpg.

VW has a lineup of engines that are cheaper and much more fuel efficient but they don't give them to us (because fuel was cheap here), and because of our crazy power desires. I don't blame VW for not offering something that won't sell - but it would now. The fact that the base Rabbit has the 2.5l inline 5 is crazy. The Rabbit could easily get in the 40+ mpg range with their smaller engines, and be cheaper. If VW doesn't offer one of these small high MPG engines for 2009 then they are clearly out of touch.

 

By the time they add all the required emission and safety components it wont be any cheaper. Probably will also get less MPG because of added weight. At most they wouldn't be any better then the small efficient Honda and Toyota engines that are already on sale here.

 

Don't forget ULSD and US gallons.

Those European cars seem to lose a lot of fuel economy when they bring them over here.

The 2009 Jetta TDI went from 60/48 (hype) to 40/29 (EPA).

 

Wow, I have a 2001 Passat right now (I inherited it) and I CAN'T WAIT to get rid of it.

Out of all of the upper-end cars I have ever driven, I have to say VW's are the worst (followed a close 2nd by Saab). To make a long story short, nothing in the car makes sense. From the purple and red dashboard lights that are impossible to see at night, to the turn wheel (?) that is used to recline the seat, to the super annoying ear-piercing BEEEEEEEEP that happens when you're low on gas or have the driver's door open, or the buttons and switches in the car that are nothing but indecipherable icons (no text labels anywhere!) -- I HATE this car.

Not to mention that it costs $1,000 just to replace the timing belt and water pump, and the "rubberizing" material that VW uses on the interior (door handles, climate controls, etc) is terribly easy to scratch and peels off. Seriously, what a poorly-designed car. My old '87 Nissan Stanza was more well-designed. Good riddance, VW!

Just got my Prius last night and couldn't be happier!

Ben

 

Well, it seems we all have had our VW experiences. I also traded a 2005 New Beetle for my Prius. I loved my beetle, it handled great, the sport seats were to die for, the monsoon stereo was awesome, and ...I never had a problem with it!.
The big problem was the mileage. For such a little vehicle it wouldn't make it to 30 mpg unless you drove very very slowly on the highway. The tiptronic transmission was wonderful but the added weight made the car like to stop at gas stations.
I have always had two door sporty cars and the Prius is a departure. I love it. This is the best car. You can do anything with it, haul people, put the seats down and haul 'lots of stuff' and the kayaks love the roof top.
The VW thing for me is handling, which we have to admit the Prius is kinda lacking.....'squirrellllly' would be a better term. And I guess I believe Japanese car interiors just do not compare to the VW interiors.
I see Toyota as having cheap interiors with plasticeee parts.
But they are two different autos from two different parts of the world and different corporate cultures.
I have owned Toyotas in the past, the last being a 2004 RAV4 and still felt the seats were uncomfortable, the stereo was awful, and the road noise was very loud. But mechanically you could not beat it.
So it is a trade off.....except when it comes to mileage.
After driving a Prius, that I never thought I would like, I was sold.

So, I wish VW luck with their hybrid development and the introduction of their new Tiguan, small SUV, sure seems like unfortunate timing.

Hopefully the price of gas will plateau for a short while, Prius or not, I think we could all stand a break from this price acceleration!!

 

There seems to be a disproportionately high number of VW owners (or former VW owners) on Priuschat. I think the Prius and VWs may attract some of the same people.

As to why people buy VWs, this thread from VWVortex is interesting:

VWvortex Forums: What made u get a VW?

 

Saabs were a sweet car especially back in the 80's, its too bad GM bought them and quickly started replacing most of the components from the GM parts bin and turned them into a premium priced car with little to no premium but the name and as a bonus they threw in GM reliability problems for free.

 

I will never allow another VW to darken my driveway again. I've owned several recently with the last one being a 2005.5 Jetta diesel. Like the others say it is well apointed, handles great, performs well, fun to drive, but the reliability is questionable at best and the service is horrible at best. Their service department will blame the customer, the fuel, the weather, the road, and anything else to avoid honoring their warranty. Buying a new VW is like buying a new car with no warranty. Having a VW means that you will know all about the service writer because you will be seeing him often!

 

I love VW. My first car was a 1968 White Bug. I have had many VW'S. But I am sad that they can't see how a Hybrid would work for them. Imagine a TDi Hybrid! It would get great MPG, and set a new standard. Oh well.

 

I agree, I think VW is shooting themselves in the foot here. How many lifetime VWers are they losing to Toyota?

Drivers wanted...drivers leaving.

 

Do you really think that VW is going to loose huge numbers of customers to Toyota because they are planning on launching a gasoline-electric hybrid instead of a diesel-electric hybrid?

VW is continuing to offer TDI vehicles for those that want high mileage but don't want a hybrid. In addition to the diesels, VW will have a hybrid for those that want high mileage and want to drive a hybrid. I'm sure they will also continue to offer high horsepower turbocharged vehicles for those that want performance. How is this a bad marketing plan?

If anything, I think that VW will start pulling customers from Toyota once they have their hybrid available. How great would it be to be able to purchase a hybrid that gets great gas mileage AND handles good?