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Drives Perfectly but inverter failure?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Nick900, Jun 27, 2008.

  1. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    Hello Everyone,

    I am new to the site and new to Prius ownership. I am based in England but this site seems to have the best and most extensive knowledge. I am hoping someone can offer advice. We bought a 2007 prius t spirit last week for my wife based on my father in laws reccomendation. I was slightly cheaper than going to a dealer as we were told it had been stolen and recovered. The only items missing were the nav DVD reader and amplifier. At the time the reverse parking camera worked. New amplifier and DVD were bought and installed. The camera stopped working and even were the new parts were disconnected. The dash had the warning triange, brake warning light and VSC light on.

    We took the car to the dealer. We have now had feedback to find it most likley might have been involved in a flood our warranty is invalid and we have no recourse towards the seller. I know you might think how could this have happened but my father in law we very directive and convincing in his assumption it was a good buy. The dealer has advised there are several fault codes they were reset but the second they turned the ingition back on the faults returned shortly afterwards. He thinks the inverter needs replacing which is a fortune! Strange thing is the car works perfectly with the HV battery charging and everything to do with driving working fine.

    The only issue is the warning lights and the MFD display at present most functions work eg bluetooth and cd player. Nav is not working and when engaging reverse the screen flickers. There are 2 warning symbols on the screen a battery and red car with exclamation mark on it.

    Can anyone assist dealer states focus has to be the HV system even though it works fine with the charging / usage on the MFD working fine.

    Thanks in advance

    Nick
     
  2. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    unfortunately we can't tell you much without knowing the codes the dealer read.

    i don't know how the vehicle title system works there, but here in the states there has to be a note on the title history if the vehicle was in a flood. (there are fraudulent ways to keep that off the title, but we won't go into that.)
     
  3. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    The loss of the NAV box and amplifier are consistent with flooding. They are both mounted on the floor under the front seats, and are the first thing to go with flooding. Is there any option of filing a lawsuit against the seller?

    Tom
     
  4. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    I have absolutely no recourse towards the seller. There is nothing I can do have checked carefully but in the UK it is hard to pursue such a matter.

    The strangest thing to me seems how apart from the Nav and the flickering MFD when engagin in reverse and the warning lights it it working perfectly. It seems illogical for the dealer to suggest replacing such an expensive component due to a warning light?

    Regards

    Nick
     
  5. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    Just heard back from the Dealer today. They are reluctant to work on the Prius and if they did they would insist on me signing a disclaimer to state anything they fixed might not work once we have the car back.

    I still cannot get away from everything seems to be working fine! They have stated they found some dirty connectors under the drivers seat which confirms the car was flood damage. I have spent the last 24 hours researching and there seems to be 2 points of view those who state there is nothing you can do for a flood damaged car and it should essentially be broken for parts and those who state as long as the engine is fine and the car is allowed to dry out properly it should touch wood be fine.

    Can anyone advise I know responding to questions regarding flood damage is not easy but I guess I am mostly interested in the fact that virtually everything works fine yet it could still have numerous problems and the dealership are concluding this from the warning lights!!!

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  6. philmcneal

    philmcneal Taxi!

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    hm well it works fine for now, but next time you should take the car for a carfax report or the like, your experience sounds very scary for a newer model, however, if you paid brand new for that car i'd be outright furious and contact my attorney.

    on the other hand makes my salvage prius even stronger as I haven't had issues up to 2 years now!!
     
  7. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Note: I am not a mechanic nor do I play one on TV.

    The car works. I'd say it's NOT the inverter or the car wouldn't work. It also sounds like it's not the CPU or the car wouldn't work.

    It sounds electrical. The MFD works sporadically, so it's not the screen. It's stuff that provides information for the screen.

    Could be you need some new wiring or at least connectors cleaned. Perhaps you can get your Father in Law to chip in on having the wiring cleaned/replaced/connections redone?

    At any rate, I'd say you have plenty of credit in the "when it sounds too good to be true it generally is" department with your Father in Law. Because in the end the "bargain" he found you is going to cost you more than if you'd bought a clean car.

    I don't understand why you have no recourse with the seller if he misrepresented the car. If he said nothing and it was sold 'as is' and you didn't check on the car's history, then it's a buyer beware thing. See above "too good to be true".
     
  8. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    DANGER, WILL ROBINSON.

    Don't have him do anything. This statement tells me they don't know what it is, they'll replace the most expensive thing they can (the inverter) at your expense, and if that doesn't work they'll replace the second most expensive thing they can (the CPU) at your expense. And they won't guarantee anything they do will solve the problem. You don't give money to an "expert" to fix something when he doesn't know what is wrong. You certainly don't give him money when he says he won't guarantee anything he does (and charges you for) will fix the problem.

    Get your car back from this dealer.

    Take it to someone else that can check the wiring, connections, fuses, etc. Someone with who will tell you all of the codes and what they mean. *That* person can tell you exactly what is wrong and what needs to be fixed. Doesn't sound like your dealer has that person on staff.
     
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Nick,

    We really need to know which DTC your dealer's tech obtained.

    It could be that you have a high voltage leak so that the car works OK but is dangerous to drive. This would be the equivalent of you connecting yourself to one side of your home's AC voltage. There's no problem as long as you don't touch the other side. However if in an accident the other side of the high voltage becomes exposed, then you could get zapped.

    Since Prius has an extraordinary amount of electronics content, a flood damaged car is tough to restore due to the possibility of intermittent connections, damage to the ECUs, etc. In the case of the Prius, the engine is the least of your worries.
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Hi Nick, you are correct that many Prius experts offer their services freely here. But please also do join the Yahoo! group called Prius-UK. It will be good resource for getting your car into the hands of someone who can work through the problems.

    Flooded cars are always a nightmare but the Prius especially so because there are perhaps a thousand cable connections that need to be examined. Good luck.
     
  11. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Hello Nick: A cheap possible fix is to see if you can determine where the waterline was, look under rugs, take seats out, look for any connector and disconnect, inspect, and clean with a Electronic spray designed for cleaning electronic parts. The product sold here is called Electroclean, there should be something comparable in Kent. It may be necessary to remove door covers. If all door controls work good, don"t bother. Check all sections of car, under hood and in trunk. You may even spot some corrosion. It sounds like the H2O level was not too high. The main thing is: the car is working!
     
  12. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    Thanks everyone for the responses. The dealer has stated the water obviously came into the car. There was evidence of a couple of the connecters feeding the nav and amp being dirty but not corroded. He did say there were other connectors under the carpet which would probably be the same but he had not been able to go into that yet.

    I do think it is concerning the dealer would go through a process of just replacing things without being certain. He did say any connectors on any of the wiring looms cannot be cleaned due to having very small pins and the connectors themselves cannot be replaced so any which are corroded will mean the wiring loom must be replaced!

    Can anyone advise of the connectors in the floor of the Prius? Apparently there are 2 banks of connectors at the base of the a pillars and all of those are fine. It has been a steep learning curve in terms of when it looks to good to be true. Father in law claimed to have done all the checks which he had not.

    I am going to try and find a Toyota specalist in Kent but think it is unlikely especially anyone who has the expertise to work on the Prius. Dealer did say they have 2 prius techs and they were working on it but the fault codes are making it hard. I will try to get the codes from him on Monday but an fearful of upsetting them as they are not keen to work on it if I can not find anyone else. Below is a list of the warning lights.

    VSC
    Brake warning light [abs does work have tested it]
    Red triangle with exclamation mark

    On the MFD
    Red battery
    Red car with exclamation.

    Thanks

    Nick

    Cheers

    Nick
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    OWCH!!! Wiring replacement is a horrible option.

    You might be better off getting the maintenance manual and researching what sort of contact cleaners and methods exist. If you do it yourself, it will be a long process but under your control.

    The earlier Prius, 2001-03, had the hybrid vehicle ECU located on the right side, firewall-floor board area. I'm not sure where it is in your vehicle. However, this is a major part, the master brains of the Prius. I would really want that unit pulled and checked.

    Any idea of what flood caused it?

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    I have no idea what caused the flood but the dealer seems to be trying to confuse me on one hand he states there was no evidence of water at certain points eg connectors / loom at the base of the a pillar but he then mentioned there are numerous connections on the wiring loom in the floor?

    One other point of note regarding condition was we did notice it seemed there was a flat tyre on the rear but all the tyre pressures were checked and okay. The sound was something between sounding like a flat or having a large stone caught in the tread.

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  15. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Very often just the act of disconnecting and reconnecting several times will fix a faulty connector.
     
  16. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    I'll assume a wiring loom is what the U.S. calls a wiring harness.

    Can anyone correct me? Isn't an inverter a LOT more expensive to replace than a wiring harness?
     
  17. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Hi Nick,

    I'm in Bristol. There's a place in Gloucester fairly near to me who sell category D salvage Prius. I wonder if it's worth getting a scrap Prius with fine electrics but a broken body and then swapping them around?

    Do you have any scan gauge tool or the like? It may be possible to read the error codes from the ODB-II Port and then have a better idea of what the problem is. Getting yourself a copy of the Prius workshop manual (Not the haynes one - the other one - look on Amazon) and that may help you diagnose things too.

    Out of interest, this isn't the car which was on ebay a few months back which hadn't been registered but was sold as a flood damadged catagory D?

    Nikki.
     
  18. Nick900

    Nick900 New Member

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    It is not the one which sold on Ebay if I knew it was flood damage would have never bought it. Yes when I refer to wiring loom I guess that is what in the US you would call a wiring harness.

    Have just heard back from the Dealer this morning. They are not prepared to work on the car. Something about their liability. If they did and we were involved in an accident as we left them they would be responsbile. Now feel totally lost and deflated. They have advised we try to sell the car in an auction to someone else and do not disclose what is wrong with it! I am not going to do that I think it's immoral and although it happened to us would not want someone else to go through this. Have sought legal advice but solicitor confirmed what I already knew there is noting towards the dealer we bought it from.

    Have tried Toyota UK to see if they can persuade the Dealer to work on the car but they will not. Did consider viability of replacing parts from a damaged Prius but the Dealer has frightened me claiming the HV system can be lethal if not worked on by someone highly trained.

    We are at a loss Dealer wants us to come and collect the car I could ask them for the fault codes but not sure if that would help as he claims they include stating there are problems with the HV, inverter / converter. I know we have been incredibily stupid but they thought they would plug the car into their diagnostic and reset the faults............before we found out it had sustained flood damage. Hardest thing of all is it drives perfectly.

    Help

    Nick
     
  19. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Hi Nick,

    If you want a second opinion why not try the slough Toyota dealer, RCS 900?

    My local Toyota garage are awful when it comes to Prius help and so I'm taking Velma back to the Slough garage for some warranty work. The chap you need to speak to first is Herman Mok. Yes, he's a sales guy, but he seems to get the service team on side :)

    Nikki.
     
  20. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Nick,

    Please obtain and post the full list of DTC that your dealer retrieved. Then we may be able to reconcile why your car "drives perfectly" but has DTC stored, and provide advice about what to do.