Trading my Prius for an Xterra

Do you ever really need that much torque though? And diesels are noisy and put out a lot of smoke (read: POLLUTION!).

 

please excuse my english, but allow me to chime in on diesels behalf.

the ignoramous ford truck driver may need that torque for business.
hauling boats, hauling heavy loads etc....

this is not possible with a car.

also, deisel fuel is remarkably clean, this black soot you see is exactly that, soot, not hydro carbon or anything of the like, it does not create green house gas as well, simply falls to earth and is absorbed, (merly carbon particals, one of the most common elements in the universe)

my new diesel car i have bought (i am german) i the bmw 123d
this is a remarkable car! i get (US mileage) over 40 MPG on der autobahn while driving at 200 KMH plus+ (approx 120mph)

the car is also fast, approx 7 seconds to 100 kmh (about 60mph)

and was also the world green car of the year for 2008

see the article.
BMW 123d gets another rave review, and we still can't get it! - AutoblogGreen

"The 204 hp 123d gets 45.2 mpg (US) and even with a diesel engine it weighs in at 143 lbs less than the 135i that we'll be getting."

i have not experienced 45 mpg in my calculations but this is most likely because it is my communter car and driven at higher speeds than america allows. again it averages 120 mph in my drive to my workplace from my dwelling (approx 50 KM)

diesel in germany is cheap, about $1.90 a litre vrs $3.50 a litre for petrol (gasoline)

and also, with the thermoreactor core affixed to the exhaust stream, its nearly a zero emissions vehicle. (most diesels dont have any emissions device attached to the exhaust stream, they are clean enough without)

diesel engines are just a better design throughout, im surprized gasoline is so popular in US. they are very dirty, unreliable, gas guzzling motors.
there are small automakers in germany that are making diesel autos (cars) that get over 100 MPG. no need to hybrids on diesel motor.

however, i can understand the need in america. diesel does not exists in cheap quantitys and gas is only option. gas has a hard time making good effinicny in large heavy vehicles. i would like to see smaller lighter cars, this is easier to produce better efficiency, and has been the regular in europe for 100 years.

unfortunatly good diesel german cars are not avail in US. golf is a nice vehicle, but id nothing like the bmw.

the bmw is approx 16,000 euros (maybe 20,000 US) and is a very safe high speed sports car, that has much room for occupants and cargo, comes in 2dr sport coupe as well as 2 door and 4 door hatchbacks. (i own 2dr coupe for max efficincy as it is lightest and lowest drag cooefficent)

i am a fan of this vehicle! very sexy looks as well!

 

:nono: why do people like this exist?

Look, I am no tree hugger nor am I a Prius owner. I am excited about the emergence of some new technologies that Toyota and the Prius have started. Since you seem to be a Manly Man...... what kind of hybrid/electric/????? vehicle would YOU own that wouldn't make you so insecure with your manhood?

This is a serious question. I own a HUGE SUV, a Luxury car and two exotics. I am an auto enthusiast and yet I am excited about the future of the motor car. What puts you off so much? Why? (Granted, the exterior design of some of the hybrids leaves a little to be desired.)

I will say that filling up my Yukon doesn't bother me. I can afford the gas. Its no big deal. What I do find interesting is this attitude that some of the Prius (and other hybrid) owns have. LEARNING more about this and people who think like you are some of the reasons I joined this forum.

 

yea but diesel engines last a hell of a lot longer

 

tideland, did you not read my post?

der uber 123d! this it the turbo diesel injected with a curb wieght of under 3,000 pounds and 7 second sixty mph!

45mpg as well! 1.6 million kilometer mechanical lifespan!

 

well, to us europeans the 123d coupe is more than adequate room wise. we are used to tight spaces, even for me 195 6 foot tall.
but again, i wanted a sports coupe, because i love my M series so much, (which BTW nets 28mpg autobahn, not bad for a racer) but wanted an economical car for standard daily use.
i only drive the m3 once a week at best, at nurburgring race track.
the 123d 4 door hatch is much larger, perhaps moreso than the golf, which is an excellent car, but more slower.

but nither cars are US market, and certainly not in 4 door hatch trim.

it really comes down to american market are too used to large cars, the prius is very large by euro standards, but to americans is a dinky auto.

and honestly, show me a hybrid owner who floors their car from a stop light to achieve the book 0-60 time!

lastly, im sure this has been scene here, but if you DO floor any economical car, it turns into a real gas hog quick!

see: brit jeremy clarkson

one must drive resonably or else the vehicle will waste, no matter what!

 

Motor Trend got the Prius to 60 in 9.8s, better than published:
2004 Toyota Prius Specs, Price, Powertrain, Performance, & Dimensions - 2004 Car of the Year - Motor Trend

C&D found that if you take a VW TDI to the track it does just as bad as the Prius on mileage. C&D also found in the article below that if you drive the Prius reasonably with an eye toward economy under real city, highway, and suburban at normal speeds it does much better than the Jetta TDI.
The Frugalympics - Green Machines/Car Shopping/Hot Lists/Reviews/Car and Driver - Car And Driver

The 123d is a pretty decent car IMHO. While it is pretty clean as diesels go, its still pretty dirty by comparison to the Prius. Based on the pricing of the other 1-series models in the UK and USA, the 123d would probably be $30k or more here making it quite a bit more expensive than the Prius starting under $22k. The cheapest BMW available in the US is the 128i which starts at $28k. The 135i starts at $35k.

123d Auto 5d:
VCAcarfueldata.org.uk - Search Results - Further Information

Prius:
VCAcarfueldata.org.uk - Search Results - Further Information

Relative to the Prius the 123d puts out 42% more CO2, twice as much CO, 18 times more NOx, and about the same on HCs. PM is 0, which is nice to see.

To get the same amount of passenger room as the Prius you'd need to be somewhere between a 320d and 520d. If the Prius were as small as the 123d, you would expect considerably better results in either performance, economy, or both.

Rob

 

LOL! Thats the best spin I've ever heard put on particulate emissions. Of course in reality most diesels have much higher emissions in all regulated emissions categories compared to the Prius, and PM emissions are generally agreed upon to be carcinogenic (cause cancer). Most diesel fuels also have the added benefit of sulfur, which translates to SOx in the air and helps cause acid rain and all sorts of other helpful things. My understanding is the US is one of the first places making a significant effort to reduce this sulfur content, which is one of the reasons diesel prices ave gone up.

Rob

 

not with the equivilant of the converter on the desiel exhaust stream. you must be reading about desiel with raw emissions.

123d was 16,500 euros my cost... bmws are much more expensive in america!

besides, its about gas mileage and saving money! who cares if it puts out a little more emissions? the air is beautiful in the fatherland right now!

smog is non existant here- you cant play that angle on the europeans!

 

your the one driving a prius herr carbonmiester

i wouldnt be talking.

 

Like the guy on the right in this picture, I'm convinced everybody is on dope!



How else can the rediculous claims being made in this thread exist? The amount of BS seems to be increasing proportionately to the number of new non-hybrid owning individuals that sign up to the forum. :der:

 

It doesn't take a man to drive a big honking vehicle, in fact a driver of a mid-size sedan probably has a lot fewer self-esteem issues on average.

Personally I don't drive a gas guzzler because I don't like sending money to terrorist-friendly nations and funding both sides of the war in Iraq, to contribute to our nation's single largest source of trade imbalance, or to hold our economy captive to OPEC's good graces. That is not what a patriotic person does, in my mind.

That said, I would give a more tactful answer to the rude person in the F250.

Diesel fuel is heavier, containing 15% more hydrocarbons per gallon, thus more energy per gallon, so it stands to reason that a car will go farther on a gallon of deisel than gasoline. But it also pollutes more per gallon, no matter how you look at it. Although Europe is ahead of the U.S., we finally got the low-sulfur diesel mandated, so now we can put on the converters to clean the exhaust.

Air might be relatively clean in Germany, but downwind, Poland has suffered from acid rain for some time. It is getting better (getting rid of those Trabants assuredly helped considerably), and smog may not be bad (due largely to differnces in geography), but I still prefer breathing the air in the Schwarzwald to Stuttgart.

Diesel power is not a panacea. Even converting people to hybrids is not a panacea. Eventually electric vehicles, and some of the ideas coming out of your area - the Twike in Switzerland, aerorider in the Netherlands, these are the solutions we need for a world with >$200/barrel oil.

 

Can we close this thread now? Or edit it?

 

Thanks!

 

Don't edit mine! It took a bit to find that picture. kidding!

Nerfer, air quality is Germany is only 3 points lower than the U.S. average I thought? Part of this was also due to air circulation patterns that shifted part of their pollution into nearby countries. I'd have to dig through my atmospheric science book to find the case study reference but I thought I remember something like that. *scratches head and crinkles his brow*

 

dude.....I like the prius as much as the next guy but 0-60 in 10.5 vs 13 seconds....LOL either way if it takes over 9 seconds to get to 60 it is s l o w

quite frankly the europeans best diesels are far better offerings then even the best hybrids sold here in the us - I'd probably be on a BMW diesel site if they sold the 1 series or 3 series diesel here and we could get 35-40MPG. Imagine, 90% of prius mileage with a decent performing chassis and better engine

right now though the prius is a choice offering in the USA due to our silly pollution laws (hence my being here)

 

as a engineer i quite like the idea of an all electic vehicle.
i would have bought the tesla roadster had it not been so mundane to drive.

they made a key mistake, made it too quiet, too comfortable.

most love raw sounds, feelings, etc... i talked to a company representitive and they are releasing a new, much more aggressive platform, more maximum RPMS on the motor drive, a straight cut gearbox, a stiffer suspension, all original chassis (instead of modified Lotus)

it will be quite the raw experience, very noisy with the higher performance components, and much more road feel. this i will like!


also, keep in mind the gear ratios of euro cars. they are very tall compared to US market. the are meant for 120-140 mph speeds sustained.

prius is meant for 55mph optimun drivespeed. the transmission ratios are set up as such. this will allow faster accel as well, to where the VW may be in 1st gear untill 80 KMH (50mph)
this is because the vw needs to have lower engine revolutions at the higher speed to maintain fuel milage. but honestly. who here floors the car? ive only use my full engine at the nurmburg ring.
makes sense? gut!

and you cant fool me on smog! ive been to Los angelese california.. its almost as bad as my business trip/vacation to china last year. uber smog!