Where you going to run to?

And I was so looking forward to a peaceful, relaxed retirement.

 

I'm with you on the first part about farming, but we diverge from there. Maybe it's an American thing, but I don't understand this obsession with firearms. I'd say food will be a currency long before ammunition, at least around here.

I'd add a book on edible wild plants to the list, and suggest you should be prepared to travel a long ways in search of food. A fishing rod might come in handy, too. No point shooting them.

TV? I turned that noise off years ago.

 

Good point on the fishing.

But if you don't have access to fish, you will want a gun or hunting bow if you want to be able to eat meat. I think your use of the word "obsession" shows a bias, likely out of unfamiliarity more than malice. I grew up around people and family that fished and hunted and ate what they brought home. A gun is a tool, just like a garden spade. It just has a longer range of effectiveness Also, in America since guns are here, you need one in a time of social chaos simply for defense against those who have access to guns but not to common sense or morality.

 

I'm just glad that I'm 59 and I've already traveled the world and done everything that I want to do - and my 3 (step) kids turned out really great.

There is nowhere to run to. Society is going to break down at some point within the next 10 or so years (maybe... 15). It might be oil, it might be a pandemic, it might be a meteor strike, it might be a supervolcano (Mammoth Lakes has been acting up), it might be a nuclear exchange or it might be a repeat of the 1859 solar flare (oh, yeah; that would take our electric grids off-line for years.)
SPACE.com -- The Great Storm: Solar Tempest of 1859 Revealed

I'm hoping I won't be around - but I'm prepared in case I am.

 

Well, maybe I am biased. I certainly come from a different mindset. I'd barter for food long before I'd shoot the neighbour for an extra snack. The list of firearms and ammo seemed excessive to me, but I can certainly see the utility of a hunting rifle. I have relatives up North who either grow or shoot everything they eat, so it's not like I've never contemplated the idea. The prices for produce are insane, and the quality is so poor that it would be thrown out down here.

But marauding hordes of vandals, armed to the teeth and bent on mayhem? C'mon, man, I live in Canada.

 

Lol, what will borders mean when we see social chaos from Peak Oil? Doesn't Canada produce more oil than it uses. Hmm... I think you guys might have some WMDs so we can invade you! :madgrin:

 

If it comes to that, then people without firearms will be called "deceased" - and the people WITH the firearms won't have to bargain for their food.

 

Sounds like we all need to rent Mad Max this weekend for a little pick-me-up.

 

I agree that Peak Oil is a much more troublesome scenario than global warming at least for developed nations. The developed world will use money and technology (example: levies / desalination plants) to overcome the effects of global warming. With enough energy we can maintain our current lifestyle. The developing world will be thrown into chaos and suffer greatly from a problem that they didn't create.

Peak Oil on the other hand is the nightmare for the developed world. Suddenly we will be unable to find the energy to sustain our lifestyle and someone else must be blamed. The developed nations of the world with fight over the remaining energy fields with horrific consequences. There are enough nuclear armed nations that someone will start the domino. Whether as a desperate attempt to stave off defeat or a daring attempt to win at the offset, the nukes will fly and the developed world will disappear in a blink. (BTW, I highly recommend "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy for a look into a post apocalyptic world)

Personally I lean toward the latter which mean that the safest place to be would be the developing world. You would want to be away from the centers of commerce and major oil field. Maybe Central America or South America. It would be an advantage to be close to the equator to help counteract the effect of nuclear winter and a massive drop in temperature from all the dust from nuclear blasts.

 

Yup, and more food, and more water, and more Hollywood actors, and...ok, I see your point. I guess I'd better get working on those miniature remote controlled Avro Arrows. Seems to me a preemptive strike is perfectly justified in this scenario. That's it, boys, shut off the power, the water, and the oil. Your weapons won't have enough fuel to get here.

And who will be left? The biggest, most vicious, and most heavily armed. Sorry, that misinterpretation of 'survival of the fittest' is what got us in to this mess. And I don't want to live in that kind of world, anyway. I'm sure Bigfoot and I could teach each other a few things. Bye, it's been nice knowing you.

 

It looks like a few think that instead of adapting to diminishing oil, we have a grand "shoot out".

I would point out that if things decay to having to shoot your food, then "hunting season" will only last a couple of months. After that everyone is living off farming for the remaining centuries and ammo is only needed to kill the hungry kids who invade your garden.

 

This seems like an emotional response based on preconceived notions of other groups of people. And it's not me or anyone here who came up with the idea that social chaos brought about by Peak Oil will cause a Mad Max-like scenario... wasn't it the very people preaching Peak Oil?

The idea that you have a rifle to hunt and defend yourself is not a new, novel, nor evil idea.

And, should we have time to adapt to diminishing oil, then that's great. But you speak of it in terms of being a gradual occurrence by the use of the word "diminishing". Surely it's not as immediate as a meteor strike, but if predictions hold, the onset could be too rapid to prevent social chaos.

I too hold out hope that faced with radical social conditions and lack of essentials that people - even in urban areas - would band together in good faith to share resources. But what happens if those resources are just not enough for everyone to survive?

Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're just picking a fight because you don't like the tone of "gun-speak" and less because you're rationally looking at the effects that Peak Oil is predicted to create.

Perhaps, but very little modern manufacturing is required to produce firearms, as we were using them in the 18th century to settle America. I agree, however, that we will not be the American Indians chasing buffalo across the plains, either. We will settle back into farming and ranching, with occasional hunting to supplement the diet. But I feel we digress...

 

I recommend that in addition to Mad Max, we all rent Cast Away this weekend, too.

After Peak Oil we can all survive on crab, coconuts, and FedEx boxes.

 

Of course the smiley means that you're kidding. What would anybody want a gasoline car for when the chips are down and the oil infrastructure is kaput? A bicycle and solar-charged EV are going to be your best transportation bets. Gas cars don't have much place in tomorrow's world.

 

That is one scenario. Here's another. The starving masses from the cities start heading out in groups searching for food. When they come upon your little utopia they kill you and take your food. When it comes down to killing or starving most people chose to kill.

You may be confusing what I would like to happen with what I think will happen. We may suddenly decide to kick the oil habit and adapt to life with different energy sources in a nice smooth and orderly fashion. Or we may continue on with the status quo until we fall off the edge of the cliff into the abyss.

You seem to discount what people will do to survive. People kill for far less than food that is essential to keep themselves alive. Since man has walked the earth he has killed his fellow man. We have just invented far more efficient methods over the years.

You seem to think that the developed nations of the earth with 15 to 20% of the population but who consume the vast majority of resources are suddenly going to start sharing those scarce resources with the other 80%. I find this very unlikely. I find it unlikely that these wealthy nations will even share among themselves.

 

Great discussion, I guess I will do my best to enjoy my life and do the best I can where I am.

 

I'll stay right here.

 

Listing the Prius is for when resources are scarce but still available. Yes, I should have listed a mountain bike. Or something with a nice flower basket mounted on the handlebars to carry fresh-picked berries However, like all things post-civilization once a nice little manufactured part on any machine breaks, you're back to using your own feet to walk! Hmm... ok, how about adding several pairs of hiking boots to the list!

 

It seems we share the same dim view of humanity. How very un-Gene Roddenberry of us.

Remember this people, the only thing that separates humans from the apes is a six pack of beer. If you doubt me, you obviously haven't been to a bar or major sporting event in a while. ound:

 

I think the people from Peak Oil need to stay at their own site. The sky is not falling chicken little! I have visited this site several times and disagreed only to have my hard drive crash more than once.(good thing for back up)

It is true the US uses a lot more resources than other countries, but we are not other countries. A lot of fuel goes to feeding not only our selves but the rest of the world, people seem to forget this. We will soon see China surpass us and people will start pointing a finger at them as far as energy consuption. It doesn't make them evil.

It's Peak demand, we have alternatives, we just need to implement some NOW. People had their way 30 years ago and sat on their hands and tied every thing up! We are starting to see the effect of the idea that still prevails today, not in my back yard. People have a tendency to be selfish.

I hope for my kids sake we get off our asses and do something other than tie every thing up.

People forget that it takes years to develope current resources let alone alternatives.
This is part of the reason we need to do more as far as production NOW! Yes some big busines are going to make a killing, get over it!

As far as Peak Oil and that BS, these people will be the ones who fulfill their own prophecies. Most are city dwellers who don't have a real clue as to what it's going to take to survive if and when $&it hits the fan. The last place I am going to want to live if this sort of senario plays out, is a large mega-metropolis. These people are going to be the first to panic! They will only make it as far as the tank of gas in their car will take them.

I don't think people give us Americans enough credit when it comes to survival of the fittest, with the exception of going to war look at how 911 effected US.We will adapt, we just won't export as much food or non at all. We will become more dependant on local products and food stuffs and ship less cross country. We will consume less and communities that have diverse talent will pool their resources.

Yes people will have to garden, hunt and fish! It's having these skills that are going to seperate those that make it and those who don't.

Being angry, clinging to my guns and religion will become the norm. People will die for what they believe in, protecting what is theirs!