What's the deal: Faster, Fatter 2010?

Please provide a link to any credible report that the Gen III will have the same mileage as the Gen II.

 

And from the very same article:

"Toyota plans to give the super-efficient Prius a little more oomph. Car & Driver says the next-gen Prius will get a 1.6-liter gasoline engine, a slight bump from the 1.5 currently under the hood. That'll make the car a little more powerful but it also will get a few more mpg than the 48 city/45 highway the current model offers."

And the really important thing is you left out the part in the article that says both opinions are speculation by two different magazines.

This source, which is more than just speculation specifies 71 MPG among other details:

Resource Investor - Rare Metals - What’s The Play in Lanthanum II: Honda Is Joined By Toyota

And I don't know exactly where it is, but it was posted in either the 2010 or news section, but Toyota had a press release recently spilling some of the 2010 details including increased fuel economy.

 

although Toyota had arlready started initial developemnt of the Pri by this time, their exclusion is what motivated them to move their timetable up...

oh btw.... great trivia question.... what was the names of the three HYBRID vehicles Ford, Chrysler and GM developed... the worst of which got 72 MPG?

 

That's the Prius history site I was looking at.

As far as I'm concerned Clinton invented the Prius and Al Gore invented the Interweb.

 

ahhh ya....what could have been...

granted these are diesel... but still could have done 60 mpg with gas versions...this is the biggest reason why i will not shed a single tear if any of the three fails...they had their chance

 

Not at all. There are a number of low-hanging-fruit improvements that can be made to the Synergy drive to increase fuel economy, in some cases dramatically.

One of the ways Prius owners do it manually is though pulse and glide. This takes advantage of producing equivalent power integrated over a particular time period by bunching up power generation into higher loads for shorter periods. The reason this works is that 85% of the work produced in the ICE is lost through friction. If you can increase the load at the same RPM for one situation vs a higher RPM with a lower load, you increase the margin of power output where the base is the friction required just to keep the engine spinning.

The result is pulse and glide where you accelerate up to some speed and then glide. In the Prius, the engine turns off while you glide. During the pulse, you accelerate. The engine is under more load for any one RPM than during static cruising.

Now here's where it gets interesting. The current Prius's electric drive is limited to 42 MPH. The Gen III is getting a larger electric motor that can sustain highway speeds all by itself. This will allow the software to do a constant speed pulse and glide. i.e. static cruising on the freeway will actually alternate between ICE only to electric only and back and forth. This is just speculation, but with the right software, the effects of P&G can be realized while driving a steady speed and all done by software to make it transparent to the driver.

Also, since Gen III is getting a larger electric motor and a higher capacity battery(even though its still NiMh to start), it will provide more flexibility on where to store energy and when to use it.

Plus, it has already been stated (sorry I can't remember the source, but it's been posted in the forum), that the newer engine is more fuel efficient by itself despite being slightly larger. The current engine is a 10 year old design carried over from the Echo.

You can bet that Toyota has been working on the new Prius for at least several years and that they've taken everything they've learned and refined it to the nth degree.

And just because the Gen III is larger, doesn't mean it's heavier. Curb weight has not been disclosed. I wouldn't be surprised if curb weight on the new one is even less through the use of lighter materials such as aluminum or magnesium subframes. The other thing we know is shorter and longer. This is especially good for CDs, so I'd expect the new Prius to have lower drag even if it occupies more volume.

 

Toyota's primary focus on cost reduction and production capacity is good business. So even if the new model "only" delivers a solid 50 MPG, they'll have lots of an affordable product to sell.

What exactly will Toyota be losing and how?

Remember, the market is still overwhelmingly dominated by non-hybrid vehicles.

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Says who? I have seen my car running on electric at 50 and even 60 MPH before. I was on a very slight downhill both times.

I for one would welcome a larger cargo area. When I take the family on a long trip, I am forced to take the Maxima because it has room for all the stuff my family wants to take. The Prius is OK for an overnight. It will fit two suitcases. When we go for five days or two weeks, we have to take the gas guzzling Maxima (27 MPG ... OMG ).

We are thinking about replacing the Maxima with a Camry Hybrid, but a slightly larger Prius might work.

Mike

 

With a steep enough hill, the Prius can go even faster than that without either electric or gasoline.

The 42 MPH is on a level road. I figured everyone would assume that, but apparently not.

 

That's not the significance of 42 MPH. It's the current threshold which the engine can no longer remain motionless.

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Then how come the Prius can go faster than 42 MPH down hill with the engine off?

 

The spin rate of the engine is controlled by the electric motors.

As for the next gen Prius, I would like to see 3 models:

A small commute car focused entirely on maximum mileage.
A successor to the Gen 2.
A stationwagon or MPV with at least 50% more cargo space.