Toyota making progress on plug-in car

What will you being willing to buy the 2010 Prius or the 2010 Volt?

 

Priapus has legs for 2010?

 

It's going to be a horse race to see what's available first.....Prius plug-in or Volt.

 

To me, it's going to be interesting to see

(1) how much the added battery capacity raises the price of the Prius. The Volt Battery is said to cost $15,000. Are we looking at a $30,000+ base price for the plug in Prius?

(2) what the actual preformance specs are going to be. I've read before that the Plug in prius is expected to get 10-12 miles of electric only driving, up to 62(??) MPH, per charge, which is probably enough for my wife to make it to and from work. However, the quotes above make it sound like it's going to be a full hybrid with extra kick from the battery to boast fuel economy. (i.e., not really have an electric-only range.)

 

I am waiting for the plug-in Prii no doubt. GM will never get my business.

 

The total range with a filled battery and filled gas tank should be 500 miles.

I wish it well but I fear the Volt will be crippled by inadequate battery technology. Toyota's incremental approach is much more likely to succeed. I expect to buy a 2012 Prius with a battery top-off plug on it.

 

I think you're all worrying about nothing. I don't expect GM to -EVER- produce a Volt. There is a much greater chance they will go bankrupt than selling another production EV.

Besides, Tesla has already taken GM's market for EVs.

 

Question, from a satisfied driver of a 2005 Prius, purchased at
the end of 2004. Should we assume that this rollout in 2010
of the lithium-based plug-in means "model year 2011" with
the "model year 2010" (delivered in fall of 2009 as usual) being
the regular NiMH-based non-plugin update?

Or is this calendar/model year talk all deliberate obfuscation?

 

What I've read by model year:

2009 identical to 2008
2010 still NiMH, but higher EV glide limit ~62mph, a bit longer/wider with bigger engine, NOT PHEV
2011 hopefully PHEV, maybe L-ion
2012 PHEV L-ion a good bet

Nothing authoritative, just my impression from various articles here and CleanMPG.

By the way, I missed the window on buying a Prius. We bought a Honda Fit, looking to trade the Tacoma for a 4-cylinder stick of some sort, waiting for at least the 2010 model year unless I happen onto a buying opportunity. Still covet the Prius.

 

Even if GM is "successful" with the Volt, there is still the issue of reliability, repairs, maintenance, etc. I believe Toyota has a fairly good track record in this regard (personally, I've had no issues with my Prius over the past 4 years). I wouldn't purchase a Chevy product for that reason alone.

 

The Volt when it arrives will be a late 2010 model, maybe even a 2011 model. GM's only commitment is that it will be offered for sale by the end of 2010. That's 18 months after the 2010 Prius ( NiMH version ) arrives.

IMO when they both arrive the market will take a look at them and say...Huh? Why? $40000 for a commuter? The Prius PHEV will only be somewhat more enticing, IMO, but I'm open to being dazzled.

 

I agree. Focusing on the electric only range is a bit too soon for the state of battery development.
What I want to see is the plug in battery being used to enhance the current hybrid.

Things like

• being able to maintain a constant speed up to say 100kph (60mph) on battery only and only using the gas engine for boosting acceleration or
• being able to pulse and glide only in electric or
• increasing how fast you can go from zero before the gas engine cuts in.

I see the Prius as a step on the way to an economical full EV but I think there may be 2-3 generations of development before that is obtained.

Besides what is the problem with replacing your car each 3-5 years with 30% better car. Think of cell phones, 10-15 years ago you didn't say if its not an I-phone, I wont have one. No, you got your expensive, minimal function brick, but each time you replaced it with one that had more functions, more power and was smaller.

Cars havent changed much in 100 years, just think what they will be like in 20 years if they developed like cell phones or computers!

 

there was a short report about the Volt on CNBC just a few days ago, and they "guesstimated" that its STARTING price would be about $45,000.

even if you "add" $10,000 for the new battery R&D / technology / cost onto a Prius Touring Pkg #6 at today's MSRP, you're still way below $45,000! as far as i'm concerned, the expected price of the Volt is going to put it well out of the financial reach of the vast majority of American families; certainly out of reach of THIS one ....

EDIT FOLLOWS: i just found this via a link on another thread about the Volt.

... experts wonder if it will be ready in time, whether enough batteries will be available to sell the cars in significant numbers, and whether the cost can be reduced to make the car affordable to the masses. GM has said the Volt will cost $30,000 to $40,000, and that it expects to sell 100,000 per year starting in 2012.

that's a bit better than the $45K i spoke of earlier, but still out of our reach for us, i believe. i guess we'll just have to wait and see ....

 

Would we want to pulse and glide in electric only mode? I've got a hunch that it wouldn't be most efficient. P&G works best with the synergy drive, but (sadly) very slow acceleration and gliding, methinks, would be best in all electric mode.

 

As Fibb222 said, the whole point of pulse and glide is to keep the engine in it's most efficient range (which is under moderate) and then to shut off the engine. The reason this is more efficient is because if you were to maintain the same constant average speed the engine efficiency is lower at the very light loads required to maintain average speeds similar to pulse and gliding.

For similar reasons, being able to go faster on electric power alone won't necessarily improve fuel economy, neither will increasing how fast you can go from zero before the engine kicks in.

Now, if you could improve the efficiency of the HSD by doing some of the following things:

1. Improve efficiency of charging batteries by engine and during engine braking
2. Improve efficiency of motors under higher loads
3. Increase maximum "electric only" speeds without reducing efficiency at lower speeds

By improving #1 and #2 you give the ECU more options to turn the engine on/off as conditions permit for better fuel economy.

By improving #3 you can truly coast at higher speeds which would give you more power for regenerative braking as well as give the engine a wider range of engine speeds it can operate at at those speeds.

 

Hugh? Sooo, a half dozen years ago, the RAV-4EV (with its horrible drag coefficiency) had over a hundred mile range, and some of them have been driven over 100,000 miles now. Where does "too soon" come in here?
What, it's not enough that 90% - 95% of all drivers will only drive 50miles or less per day round trip? We gotta have a pure EV that'll do 500 miles, or none at all?