Engine oil replacement?

I have measured it out with a graduated container. 3.7 qts puts the level at the "full" line on my car after letting the oil drain for at least 20 min prior to refilling. I have used 3.5 qts on previous oil changes. I let the dealer perform the first oil change and they filled it about 1/4 inch above the "full" mark, so I don't let them do it anymore.

 

So did mine; undoubtedly they were following the service manual. Who would think that the service manual would be wrong on such a simple point? Anyway, for each oil change since I give them three quart bottles of Mobil 1 and then check the level before driving away.

 

They also made the mistake of leaving 3 wheel nuts loose when they rotated the tires. I only caught this because they also left the valve stem caps loose and one of them fell off with another one hanging by a thread. In an act of self preservation I decided to check the torque on the wheel nuts.

I prefer to change the oil myself anyway. I care more about my car than they do.

 

Oops! Yeah, I wouldn't want to go back to those guys either. And it makes me feel even better about not rotating my tires.

 

I would like to follow the Toyota's recommendations of 5 K oil changes using a highly rated synthetic motor oil and oil filter. What I am finding, with no help from this website, is a place to have my Prius serviced with this maintenance schedule. I understand service facilities wanting to make a profit on oil and filters, and I am willing to pay a reasonable fee or purchase high end oil and/or oil filters from their facilities. What I don't understand;
are these Prius experts in Chicago unaware of any facility that actually specialize in servicing the Prius? Or should I go to Toyota and just hope for the best?

 

Do what I do (at least till 60,000 warranty is up). Go to your local Toyota dealer if they have a quick lube bay setup. Bring in only three quarts of Mobile One. Then at home top off the rest. Chance of you overfilling . . . zero. Chance of the dealer overfilling with only three quarts . . . ALMOST zero. <_<

 

I spec the torque when I go in for any tire removal involving service on my vehicles (except when I forget.) When I get home I check the torque on a few or retorque them myself. When I forget to mention that I want tires hand torqued to a specific value I try to go ahead and retorque them all. (I will skip this with particular mechanics that I know, trust, and have a rapport with.) When I've forgotten/not had time to do this it seems I end up with warped rotors within a thousand miles or so.

The other problem that arises when I don't do this is that some jack nice person will put the lug nuts on so tight that my wife can't change a tire...and that is a major safety issue! (Yes, this happened, in the rain.) Heck, some moron put the lug nuts on so tight on my old used Ford truck that even with WD-40, some taps with a hammer, and all the torque I could apply with both feet on one side of the cross and both hands on the other couldn't break two of the nuts. Instead the old cross I had failed, turned about 45 degrees--I thought the studs were failing, then I realized that the cross had necked down and twisted in classic yield failure. I went out and bought a beefier new tire cross and finally broke the last two loose. The cheap Ford lug nuts had flimsy chrome caps over them and were all so deformed that I had to replace them--they didn't strip in the socket, but there was so much torque on them that they deformed.

The same clown apparently tightened the oil drain plug for the previous owner as it was stripped out and leaking. Took two weeks to get in a drain plug...nobody carried a simple drain plug for this most common of Ford V-8's. Arrgg, now I'm talking about that unreliable piece of junk.

 

i was told prius engine wasn't made for synthetic oil,that it would damage the engine .so ended up using castro oil as am not convinced with penzoil..now ready for oil change again and would really wnt to use synthetic oil ..please advice..will appreciate the help

 

Amazingly enough, I used to take my GF's Avalon to the same dealer for oil changes and tire rotations and had to have the rotors turned last year because they were warped. I don't take her car there anymore either. We were taking it to the dealer because of the V6 oil sludging problem (we wanted to have proof that the oil was changed regularly in case there was a problem), but they use crappy oil, so I would rather do it for her and use better oil.

 

You can use any oil that meets the specification in the owners manual, it doesn't matter if it is conventional (dino) oil or synthetic oil as long as it meets the spec.

Whoever told you that synthetic oil would damage the engine was either ignorant or lying.

 

Let me try this again. I used to be a mechanic, both at family owned shops as well as at a Ford dealership and a Chrysler dealership. Part of my work involved rebuilding motors.

The first time you add oil to a newly built motor, there is NO oil in the motor left over from some previous use ... the motor is dry. ON EVERY MOTOR I HAVE EVER BUILT ... when adding the manufacturer's specified amount of oil into that dry motor ... and then starting it and getting the oil to all the places it has to be ... the dipstick ALWAYS SHOWED OVERFULL.

As a matter of course, we would calibrate the dipstick to the motor so it would read full when the motor was full.

IF YOUR DIPSTICK HAS NOT BEEN CALIBRATED TO YOUR MOTOR ... IT IS PROBABLY WRONG.

If you put in the 3.9 quarts of oil the manufacturer reccomends for the Prius ... you are NOT overfull ... YOUR DIPSTICK IS WRONG.

Don't know how to make this any plainer. Trust the fill specification from the people who made the motor. 3.9 quarts doesn't mean 3 quarts ... or 3.5 quarts ... and it doesn't mean 4 quarts.

 

I'm not sure I understand you. This is not very difficult:
Take it to a Prius dealer. Show the service writer the appropriate page in the Prius Scheduled Maintenance Guide that came with the car and tell him to do that stuff. Also tell him to be sure not to overfill the oil because you will check the oil level before you drive away, and then do it.

 

The possible consequenses are much worse if you assume the dipstick is wrong (and it isn't) than if you assume the printed number in the manual is wrong (and it isn't).

In the first case, you overfilled your crankcase and you can possibly damage the engine. In the second case, you end up with slightly less oil than full but the level is still well within the acceptable range.

I pick the second case until Toyota decides to recall all of the Prius and replace the dipstick.

 

The fill recommendation comes to us from the designer filtered through a technical writer and a Japanese-to-English translator. We can see in lots of places that the translation is imperfect. In contrast, the dipstick design went directly from the designer to the factory.

You think that the dipstick is wrong. I think it's more likely that Toyota got the English translation of the fill recommendation wrong. I'm going to keep the oil level in my Prius halfway between the ADD and FULL marks on the dipstick. If the engine ever fails I will post the reason why.

 

What is interesting is that new Prius owners report the oil level in their vehicles is ~1/8" above the top dimple. Hence the factory seems to be relying on the same source for the oil fill guidelines as the owner's manual.

As long as the oil level is somewhere between the bottom dimple and the top dimple, there should be no reason for concern. I like using 3.5 US qt for refill because it is easy to measure out 0.5 quart using the markings on the quart container. Then you can save the remaining 0.5 quart for use next time without having to measure again.

If an owner chooses to add 3.9 or 4.0 qt when refilling, this will not cause any problems. However, the use of 3.5 qt saves 0.5 qt each oil change, a small contribution to conservation.

 

But Patrick, if your dipstick is not calibrated ... can you add your own dimple?

 

Hi Patrick

This wasn't true for my car. The oil level was even with the top (full) mark until I took it in for the first oil change. When they changed the oil at the dealer, I received it back with the level ~ 1/4" above the mark. I pulled about 1/2 pint out to bring it back to the full mark.

 

OK, my guess is that the dealer tech put 4 qts in. By taking 1/2 pint out, you brought the amount down to 3.75 qts, to hit the top dimple.

Regarding McShemp's comment about adding another dimple: a hammer and a nail can be used for that purpose, should you feel this is necessary...

 

Does that mean I can I add a dimple near the bottom of the dipstick and call it good when the oil level is 1/4 inch above?

 

I'll check the Prius manual again tonight, but I'm about 99% certain you are wrong. (You are wrong for the Tundra V8 manual I have in front of me.) The spec is for capacity, not the recommended level. What does "capacity" mean? It means the "full" mark on the dipstick.

You are making the assumption that the capacity of the reservoir is the recommended refill. Instead the manuals say that the fluid should be kept between the marks. It's not just on the Prius.

What is really needed is a third mark, a target level between the other two. Assuming that the fill should be made to the low or full mark is a mistake.

I've designed and operated various process vessels. It is easy for either a designer or a procedure writer to misinterpret what is needed unless the communication is clear and precise. If the process requires a 1,000 gallon operating sump I don't design a vessel that has the high level alarm tripping at 1,000 gallons. No, I spec the vessel so that the normal operating target for the level is at 1,000 gallons, with enough range above and below to absorb operational upsets/normal variation. The high level alarm might trip at 1,200, 1,500, etc. gallons. If it is a simple fill tank that is supposed to hold 1,000 gallons then I have to spec a larger tank, typically 1250 gallons so that the full level incidation is at 80% (1,000 gallons.)

There is nothing wrong with the marks on the dipsticks. The problem is that you have misinterpreted what the marks mean. It is not recommended level, it is capacity (as listed in technical specifications.) I doubt the technical writers know the difference either.

I'm not trying to beat you up over this, you made logical assumptions. The operators and mechanics on my units have been very intelligent and they make the same mistaken calls at times because nobody has bothered to communicate to them what various terms are supposed to mean in real world operational parlance. When any of us have to guess what someone means because their terminology is imprecise or inadequately defined, then we are going to make a lot of mistakes (might as well be a coin flip.)

If you have lubrication related engine trouble, and you take it to the dealer with the oil outside the low and full marks, they have reason to deny a warranty claim. Blaming the incorrect fill level on the dipstick they ship in all their Prii isn't likely to sway them.