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Fuel economy vs. grade and brand

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Celtic Blue, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    There have been several threads recently that suggest considerable complexity in determining whether fuel choices are impacting fuel economy. I don't know what the answers are, but it appears to me that we could benefit from a reasoned discussion/approach to tackling this one.

    Sampling the various threads in different sections of the forum: Some folks have gotten very poor mileage with 10% ethanol, some not so bad. Some folks have reported much better mileage with mid-grade or premium, some have gotten worse. Some have gotten great mileage with branded refiner's gas such as Shell.

    Trying to sort this out and make sense of it I'm proposing the following factors to consider:
    1. 10% ethanol. This has a lower energy value and should result in reduced mileage, but it is slightly cheaper per gallon.
    2. Toyota designed the car for 87 octane unleaded and if everything is in spec and matches their design temp/pressure range this would theoretically give best efficiency and lowest cost.
    3. Environmental factors may favor one grade or brand over another (sea level in summer vs. high altitude for example.)
    4. There can always be variability in the manufacture or set up/wear of the components whether or not they are all still in spec--valve timing could be shifted slightly/tolerances tight or loose, ignition timing could be advanced/retarded slightly, O2 sensor or MAF might be slightly biasing the mix, the plugs might be a little hot, the injectors (or one injector) might be a little off.
    5. Certain refiner branded gas might very well have specific components (particularly for octane or regulatory targets) that outperform generic/lowest cost materials (see Murphy's at Sam's/Wal Mart?)
    6. Obviously cost is a factor, so going the cheapest per tank route is not always best, nor does running premium necessarily make sense even on vehicle where it might give slightly higher mileage.
    7. Driving habits might play a factor. For example, I try not to let the ICE lug as I believe this to be inefficient, so I'll try to get it to kick out, or apply more throttle to move the load toa point that doesn't feel like it is lugging.
    8. The different Prius models will probably respond differently.

    Essentially, the only way to determine whether or not your gas fills are contributing to trouble or are at optimum is to experiment somewhat. On the surface it would be tempting to proclaim that Toyota says 87, and we know that 10% ethanol has some negatives, so choose 87 with no ethanol. But that might not apply if your valves are a little tight or ignition timing a little off, etc. You might find your vehicle runs best on mid-grade or even premium.

    So maybe we need to expand suggestions in fuel mileage discussions in late stages to include running test tanks of Shell (or other respected brand) and/or higher octane to see if it makes a noticeable diffrence. Doing so could indicate a problem with a local station/brand or that there is something about the car that should be examined. This latter part could be particularly helpful, especially if one detects signs of ping/knock.

    Feedback and discussion are welcome as this is a compilation of ideas. I would like to turn it into a sort of troubleshooting addendum.
     
  2. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    I just want to throw out this piece of info, since I have seen some others advocating use of premium fuel - in the Toyota Hybrid Diagnostic Training course (Course 072, Chap 3 Fuel and EVAP Systems) they specifically warn not to use premium fuel in the Prius.

    Here is the actual warning:

    [​IMG]
     

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  3. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    USA 87 is like european oct 91... and here in europe you almost only have oct 95 and 98
    you start thinking did toyota adjust the prius for that?
     
  4. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    What does your owner's manual say? For the US model, the owner's manual also recommends 87 octane, but do not give the reason why.
     
  5. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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    That's interesting. Do they have different rating systems? I belive here in the U.S. it's the average of 2 or 3 different rating methods.
     
  6. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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  7. dwreed3rd

    dwreed3rd New Member

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  8. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    from that site qouted

    Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90–91 US (R+M)/2, and deliver 98 (RON), 99 or 100 (RON) labeled as Super Unleaded.

    i will get back about whts in the EU manual.
     
  9. socratesthecabdriver

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    i am picking mine up tomorow...the manual says to use 95octane this is in greece!

    here are its tecknical specs in a pdf for put its in greek.

    http://www.toyota.gr/Images/Prius_specs_tcm273-602737.pdf


    it suggests 95 octane and in parenthesis it says (or above) !?!
     
  10. Mike Dimmick

    Mike Dimmick Active Member

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    The adjustment would be a higher compression ratio, which on the Prius would be a change to the valve timing and probably the cam profile. I've seen nothing to indicate that the engine is any different on the European cars than in the US. The same performance figures are quoted on Toyota.com and Toyota.co.uk: 73kW at 5200rpm, 142Nm torque at 4000rpm. More compression would give a bigger bang and more torque.

    A higher 'compression ratio' would really be a higher expansion ratio on the Prius, of course. The actual compression ratio is much lower than stated (Prius 13.0 to 1, typical 95 RON cars have 10.5 to 1) because the intake valve doesn't close until long after bottom dead centre, partway through the compression stroke, so the actual compression doesn't start until it does close.

    If poor octane gives knocking, perhaps higher octane is slightly less willing to ignite? This may explain the rough running on my car at low power outputs.
     
  11. 2009Prius

    2009Prius A Wimpy DIYer

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    Wow the specs in Greek looks like Greek to me. :D

    I did find the line that says 95 octane or above. Maybe gen 3 Prius is different from gen 2? (We know the engine is different.)