Bailout put to good use...

I'm beginning to understand why people go 'postal' ...

Is there really nothing we (taxpayers) can do about this?

 

I think the "P.S. Heading to California for a weekend of gluttony" was cut off from the bottom.

 

I'm not surprised. Wish that bailout never passed.

 

There's something fundamentally wrong with our society when we can't send people like that to "federal POUND ME IN THE A$$ prison" (to quote office space). It's essentially stealing from the American people.

 

Yes, but stealing from the American people is what business and politicians have been doing since there was an "American people." The founding fathers broke away from England so that they (rather than crazy King George) could steal from the American people. There is actually something "the American people" could do about it, and that is vote the crooks out of office. But there's a problem: They've kept us so divided that we never manage to get together against them. They've got us so bollixed up that instead of joining against the real enemy (the capitalist economic system) we spend all our energy quarreling over whether the Dems or the Repubs are to blame. They've got us so bollixed up that 95% the people reading this will dismiss me as a commie pinko, and will never see that the current mess was caused by the capitalist economic system, which allows private individuals to control the wealth of the country and the investment decisions, and thereby guarantees that from time to time a mess like this will be brought on by greed, incompetence, and governmental corruption.

 

Would we be better off if we had not broke away?

So what happens when all the crooks are voted out? Utopia? I see a problem with inherent human nature that results in a self serving economic system, not the reverse. Are you suggesting something radically different?

We have agreement that the present situation is far inferior to what should be achievable. So what is achievable? What replaces the "capitalist economic system"? Any examples anywhere, anytime in the history of mankind you see as better (that work on a scale of many 100s of millions)?

 

We broke away from England. Canada remained until much later, and in my opinion, Canada is a much more civilized country.

Sometimes great wisdom comes from unexpected quarters. Douglas Adams said (Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) that nobody who wants to be president should ever be allowed to be. I'd extend that to all elective office, and fill such positions by a national draft lottery of all legally qualified citizens.

Americans have been brainwashed from birth to curl up into a ball and shut their brains whenever anyone says the word "socialism," but a well-run socialist economy is, in my opinion, superior overall to a capitalist one. Capitalism produces goods and services of a higher quality at a cheaper price. But the cost to society is that it systematically excludes a large portion of the population from the mainstream economy, forcing them into the black market economy or crime, and this cost is great. And in the U.S., our lack of preventative medical care for the poor forces them into the much more expensive emergency medical system.

Socialism is less efficient at producing goods and services, but more efficient at getting the basic necessities to those who need them. Goods and services cost more, but social costs are reduced as far fewer people choose anti-social methods of gaining a livelihood.

 

Is there yet such a thing as "Enlightened Capitalism?" Like the usual kind, except all costs - including social and environmental - are included in the definition of profit.

 

Well said, Daniel.

I personally think that a capitalistic society fails in the area of placing value on the human capital. Socialism recognizes that a people who are healthy, educated and not divided by huge barriers to services based upon economic capability are an asset. When a segment of our society is weak, we are all weaker for it. Socialism recognizes this and works proactively to remedy it.

To say that socialistic countries don't care about profit or don't have rich people in it is just plain ignorant. But if the guy dumping the garbage can is just as dignified and gainfully employed as the doctor in the hospital or the engineer at the office, then there is less separation due to classism and generally an overall greater ambition of the people to pursue jobs that are fulfilling instead of just letting the Almighty Dollar drive choices. Oh yeah, and there is more equality.

 

Liberal capitalism tries to address the issues of social injustice with social entitlement programs and regulation of the excesses of corporations. And indeed, liberal capitalist countries are more humane than conservative free-market capitalist countries. The United States swings back and forth between moderately liberal and moderately conservative capitalism, with present-day neo-conservatives pushing hard for strict free-market capitalism.

But even liberal capitalism fails to achieve social justice because investment decisions are still made entirely by the owners of capital (the extremely wealthy) and they make these decisions based on what they expect to be most profitable for them, not on what is best for society, and certainly not based on meeting the basic needs of the working poor.

My father was a liberal capitalist. He paid the highest wages in his industry and he was the first (maybe only?) in his industry to implement profit-sharing. He always negotiated in good faith with the union and as a result, when there were strikes against every other business in his field in the city, there was never a strike at his plant. And yet he made far more money than his workers and left us kids with enough money that we could all quit working and live nicely on money we did nothing to earn. His employees loved him and none ever had a bad word to say about him. And yet it was unjust that when his first business had to close because of competition from cheaper but lower-quality knock-offs, and he switched to a different industry entirely, he took with him the wealth accumulated by the company, and his employees were out of work.

Capitalism can be relatively humane. But it seldom is, and it is inherently unjust.