2010 Insight won't beat Prius

Honda's limitation is the IMA system itself. Just as the HSD has a limitation where it can't be used effectively in heavy BOF vehicles, Honda's IMA loses nearly all its effectiveness in anything bigger than a Civic. The IMA is a very elegant engineering solution to achieve nearly what the Prius does but it's limited by weight. Anything heavier than a Civic would lose in both performance and fuel economy ( HAH for example ).

The new Insight will achieve FE ratings about that of the current HCH. It's going to be smaller than the HCH but about the same weight due to the larger body.

Then there's the obvious coincidence, or not, that Honda will not compete directly against Toyota - and vice versa. I'm of the firm belief that a gentlemen's agreement has been put in place by all the 4 major hybrid players not to compete directly for some period of time while they each develop their own segment and grow the overall market.

 

Almost match?

Civic non-hybrid: 29/36 MPG
Prius: 48/45 MPG

 

Stepping back to look at the big picture is pointless? Isn't failing to do that how Wall Street and the Big-3 got into the mess we're now dealing with?

Insight will do fine. But what else will Honda sell?

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I don't get why some of us have to root against the success of other hybrid/fuel efficient vehicles. We all win in the end if the car industry successfully transitions to better technology. Shouldn't we want these companies to build technology and competition? Especially with the global economy tanking, it would be a tremendous boon to have all car companies move back into real profitability.

I'd also really like the Fords and GMs of the world to get in on this ASAP. I love my Prius but it breaks my heart to see what's happening to the American automobile industry.

 

The Toyota Prius system of hybrid synergy drive is superior because of the ability to move short distances in pure electric mode. We all know that.

This is also why Honda will have to do a completely new design in order to do a Plug-In (PHEV) to compete with the GM Volt or the future Prius Plug-In.

Toyota has all of the basics already in their system. They merely need to improve on it and go to the next level. Hymotion has proven that.

Honda will have to start over from scratch.

 

There is a shortage of oil already. The only thing bringing down prices currently is the threat of global depression. Get a nice economy going again, and watch oil prices shoot back up to $150+.

With China and India buying millions of cars, there is definitely a shortage of oil now.

Oil demand is rising and supply cannot keep up.
Deal with reality or reality will deal with you.

 

Yeah, the current price is extremely misleading. I'm hoping it goes up a little soon. If it doesn't, we're in big trouble.

 

there's NO shortage of oil... there never was... glad you enjoyed being spoonfed the propaganda you wanted to hear now that oil is on its way back down to $50 a barrel. ANother thing we have no shortage of is unscrupulous traders who bid oil up to make a quick buck and helped tank the economy in the process.

 

No, the courts have no independent enforcement responsibility. They just play "referee." It is the responsibility of the patent holder to enforce the patent by sending infringers cease and desist letters or requests for royalties, followed up with litigation if needed. When these things go to litigation, the infringer usually attempts to make arguments that prior art eliminated the novelty of the patent. This is what typically happens in the US courts. I am not sure how the German patent system worked back then.

 

Sure they could copy it without purchasing a license. Just like Toyota (and Honda and everybody else who is building hybrids) has done and is still doing today. Every current builder of hybrid vehicles today is illegally using technology that is patented and unlicensed - from Dr. Andy Frank.

I already know what the next question is likely to be, so I should probably go ahead and answer it. But it isn't my placed to so so....

 

You actually believe this don't you? Or are you just yanking the chain? Of course there will always be plenty of oil. It just won't be viable to bring it to the surface and use. When it takes as much energy to create the oil as the oil will release, we'll leave that abundance right where it is. In the ground, under the water, in the tar sands.

So now that you've accused others of not having a point. What the heck is YOUR point in pointing out how much oil we have that we won't be using?

 

fish_antlers is just up to his usual posting of nonsense. Per CR testing (one can see the results for 2 of the 3 cars at http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/most-fuelefficient-cars-206/):
Prius base: 35 city/50 highway, 44 mpg overall
Civic EX manual: 22 city/40 highway, 31 mpg overall
Civic EX auto: 18 city/43 highway, 28 mpg overall

Haha about his claims of "almost match" when the Prius got 57% better overall mileage than an automatic Civic.

 

Or more accurately, "... to see what the American automobile industry has done to itself."

 

saw an insight today he was making a left turn.

I nearly jumped out of of my seat and was like look at that insight you don't see to many of those..my gf was like huh? what! lol

the older insights got great MPG if drove properly from all the charts I have seen

 

So... was that a response of denial or fear to:

What will 50 percent of each automakers product-line consist of a decade from now?

How about changing the word "will" to "should".

Read the posts & blogs from 8 years ago. Some of us were dead-on about what would unfold now... way back then. The need to reduce the dependence on oil and to reduce emissions is obvious.

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since no one really cares what you think, we can check back and let the market decide once the car's been released. Consumers will let all of us know...

 

Gen1 Insight's are Prius Killers as far as gas mileage. They are also much smaller and much lighter which is why they get better MPG's. If I could find one used nearby, I'd drive it as my commuter...I know there are a couple on e*** with super high mileage. Regardless, I can't wait until the new Gen2 Insight is available, as I am going to test drive it and possibly be in the market for a second car.

 

In your dreams. Oil supply was indeed short of demand. That's how we hit $50, then $75, then $100, then $125, and nearly $150. It's only down now because of global recession--see the definition of "demand." Having something steadily increase almost six fold in price over multiple years is an indication of shortage.

Being "on its way back down to $50 a barrel" is itself an admission that there was a shortage. It was in the $25 range when all this kicked off and we were emerging from recession. I projected $50 about now...in mid-2003, but the oil companies were projecting only a few percent per year increase. (I didn't count on the intervening much higher prices--because I believed the claimed alternative supplies would kick in and effectively cap it, and that clearly didn't happen.)

Unless we are in a global depression, oil demand will pick back up in a year or two and we will end up back in the $100+ range. My expectation is that within a few years that will seem cheap again.

By the way, I also expected oil prices to tumble as they have, because I expected recession based on fundamentals. (I did anticipate it starting a year earlier than it did.)

 

believe what you want... there's plenty of oil.... if you don't want to use it, I will.