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Old Books

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daniel, Oct 15, 2008.

  1. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    In the Middle Ages (a fascinating period; I've just completed the three Teaching Company lecture series on the period) people considered that the most reliable authorities were old books. First the Bible, then the church fathers, and finally the ancient Greeks. By the beginning of the High Middle Ages, Jesus had been dead for a thousand years, and these "authoritative" books were very, very old indeed. The professor calls our attention to a paradigm shift: If he were to assign a ten-year-old book in one of his classes, his students would wonder why he was using an out-of-date text; but in the Middle Ages, a professor who assigned a book that was newer than a thousand years old would be criticized for ignoring the "real" authorities.

    In the movie Chicago, the lawyer tells his table companions a story of a woman who finds her lover in bed with two other women. He tells her he's alone, and asks: "Are you going to believe what you see, or are you going to believe what I tell you?"

    To us this is so preposterous it's funny. But in the Middle Ages, if what you saw conflicted with what you read in old books, you'd believe the books, without question. Thus Galileo got into trouble with the church, because he believed, and reported, what he saw with his eyes (through his telescope) rather than what was written in old books.

    The old system began to break down during the Enlightenment, when people started cutting up cadavers and finding that what Galen (the ancient Greek physician) had written was wrong. Suddenly people started checking lots of stuff from old books against what they could see and measure in the real world. The paradigm shift was happening: What you could see and touch and measure was more to be believed than what you read in a thousand-year-old book.

    Today, nobody would think of arguing that Aristotle is correct when he says something contrary to what science has shown, and a doctor who studied Galen to the exclusion of modern medical textbooks would flunk his exams; and I dare say our most ardent Biblical literalists would not want that doctor operating on their child.

    Old books have been relegated to the arts, where we gladly leave reality behind, and to philosophy, which has always been nonsense, and so is unaffected by science. And yet, a small but vocal minority of Christians continues to insist that one old anthology, the Bible, is a greater authority than the evidence of our eyes.

    Here's some unrelated Medieval trivia that I have not had a chance to fit into the trivia thread:

    What two technological inventions in the Early Middle Ages made it possible for knights to fight the way they did (couching a lance under the arm and charging at people)? And what invention in the Late Middle Ages ended the primacy of knights in warfare?
     
  2. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    Wild-nice person guesses -- even though the knights rode horses:

    a. The stirup (sp?) and the bit in the horses mouth.
    b. The crossbow

    I would think that the rapid proliferation of non-religious/scientific texts after
    the invention of the printing press was important Those texts highlighted the
    fact that there were many contemporary thinkers/writers whose views offered
    alternative "realities" that championed the "rights of man" as opposed to
    divine right and royal oppression/suppression of the growing
    middle/merchant/mechanic class.
     
  3. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    The stirrup is one of the inventions that made knights possible. There is one other critical one.

    The crossbow was not effective against knights. The invention that ended their primacy is something else.
     
  4. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Now you're really getting sacrilegious. :)

    What about the philosophy of science? Theories of knowledge? Logic?
     
  5. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    The horseshoe?

    The cannon?
     
  6. samiam

    samiam Antipodean Prius Poster

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    If you were faced with heavy cavalry the single most effective weapon was a bunch of caltrops (or in latin, tribulus). A four-pointed piece of iron that looked something like children's jacks. Throw them on the ground in front of the cavalry, horses rear, knights fall down, and ya kill em with a pike or an axe. The Scots used them quite effectively against the English cavalry in the 14th-15th centuries, and maybe even against the Romans before that.

    (I doubt that this is what Daniel is looking for, but nonetheless it was the downfall of many knights)
     
  7. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Not the crossbow. I'd say the longbow.

    Tom
     
  8. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Thinking of what made knights possible, maybe it was those big saddles that let the knights use lances to greater effect.
    Either that or round tables. :rolleyes:

    As for their demise, it must have had something to do with the Winter solstice, because after that the knights got shorter.
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Bingo!!! The longbow packed considerably more punch than a crossbow, had a greater reach, but most importantly, a crossbow took a long time to prime. A skilled longbowman could fire half a dozen arrows a minute.

    Yes. Specifically the high-backed saddle. When a knight struck another, or a person on foot, with his lance, the recoil against the knight was tremendous. The high-backed saddle allowed him to take the force of the recoil and remain on his horse.

    :D :D :D