US Big 3 ask for $34bn dollars...

Because it wasn't a step in the right direction.

.

 

We can always put taxpayer money into them after they file Chapter 11. The option will still be on the table, but without being burdened by existing labor contracts and management.

Tom

 

Malorn the GM car dealer thinks GM is too big to fail.

Who wudda thunk ?

 

GM's brand makeover - The big strategy (1) - CNNMoney.com

Detroit's brand chopping list - GMC (1) - CNNMoney.com

 

So how did that whole E85 push for corn thing work out?

Didn't the autocompanies get bail out "loans" some time ago as well? Did they pay those back? I'm ok for giving a loan assuming there's appropriate collateral to back it up and it's at fair rates to those who'll be backing it.

Auto industry collapse? PULEASE. That same old tired song and dance, yes, jobs will be lost, yes they might be massive, yes that most likely will ripple through the economy. But it's better to be done with it and get it over, then continuing to play this shell game that we have for the past decade to hide how really broke we are as a country, stop throwing a really crappy dollar at a really crappy bad investment and let them declare bankruptsy. Restructuring, maybe merging with another auto maker will prevent the entire US auto industry from going away.

 

If you look at the cost world-wide, it's much higher.
Sweden, Great Britain, Germany, Australia, Canada, Spain and I think others are being asked by divisions of GM and Ford for cash for their operations there.

Also, are the CEO's just getting that one dollar, or are they to receive stock at a later time? I don't quite buy that dollar-salary thing, myself.

 

If one of the detroit companies fails they all fail and then the dominos start falling one by one in a radiant motion from detroit.

If Gm or ford are allowed to fail the US as you know it will cease to exist almost overnight. Tell me, who was saying almost a year ago that we were in a recession when some of you were denying it? Did I say gas prices would hit $2.00 before they would hit $5.00. I don't know about alot of things but trust me on macroeconomics.

 

Dow at 2,000 your retirement gone, 15-20% unemployment, a world-wide depression for 10+ years. I guess as long as you say we might as well get it over with. Rememeber how the last depression ended? Was it 50 million dead? 100 million dead? World War? How do you think the next one would end?

 

Exactly. Buying foreign oil, buying foreign cars, buying foreign electronics, where does it end?
If the Big Three, combined are losing billions every month, that means they are STIMULATING the U.S. economy by that much every month. If they disappear or file bankruptcy, it will be like a negative stimulus package. Auto workers support their own local economies as well as the American economy as a whole. It would have a domino effect. What about the thousands of car dealers (small businesses) that would LOSE their investments? And the suppliers? In the video that I quoted in the the second post on this thread, the Ford CEO says "Ford buys 62% of it's parts from U.S. suppliers."

If they file bankruptcy, does that mean the don't have to pay the union bosses?

 

A bankrupt nation in a massive depression.

 

Yet pouring more debt into a company that makes product the populace does not want or is too poor to buy will magically fix things ?

pulease

 

Which company are you refering to? GM is #1 in the US, Ford is #3 and Chrylser #5. Which company are you referring to?

 

That's the part I don't understand. The Big Three always whine about their "legacy" costs in the U.S.

So, do the Big Three have similar "legacy" costs in Ontario? Every time GM or Toyota or Chrysler announce some plant expansion, or a new plant, the generous Canadian taxpayer plops the money teat into their mouth.

I would like to know what excuse the Big Three are using in Canada to justify a bailout package. Will this excuse be the same used in other Western nations with Universal Health Care, eg UK, Germany, etc

 

and if they fail despite the loans? then what? shall we throw a few more billion at them and keep them going until... when? this is very open-ended if you ask me. when do we get the money back? with interest?

 

#1, #3, and #5 are revenue. Try profits. Then you would find last, next to last, and second from last.

This is America, not the USSR. By the way, been to the USSR lately ?

 

If you all think the car companies are failing because of poor product offerings you are blind. And so is most of the press. They are failing because people have stopped buying cars. People have not just quit buying american cars they have quit buying all types of cars. It is because of credit crunch and consumer confidence dropping like a rock.

Nobody could predict that people would quit buying cars in such dramatic numbers. GM was profitable for a while because people bought SUV's and GM makes a lot of money on the SUV's they sell. They did not put money into development of small cars, because there is no profit in them.

The idea that hybrids or Volts will save GM is rediculous too. Expecially with gas at $1.80 a gallon.

Nobody talks about how Chrysler paid back their loan. Why dont you all remember that?

 

There needs to be a distinction here. If the US loses a substantial chunk of it's vehicle manufacturing base, there are US economic repercussions....big time. However, GM (or Ford, or Chysler) failing should not automatically be considered as losing that base.

History has plenty of examples of the industrial nations becoming world economic powers and the "spending" nations becoming diminishing powers. For example, Spain had huge amounts of gold after plundering America, yet it was England that became the dominant power by building stuff (e.g. ships) while Spain got very good at spending their gold. (Think of Japan for a post WWII example)

The "right" answer of maintaining our industrial base, especially auto manufacturing without this becoming "maintaining" of the "over the hill" obsolete US auto management should become apparent. Any bailout or public financing of the auto industry should be on the same terms for ALL US vehicle manufacturing entities. (What if John Deere wants to make trucks?)

 

The current economic crisis has most certainly pushed GM off a cliff, but they have been a failing business for years.

 

That 1 dolla a year salary sounds more like a bribe to me:rockon:

 

Today, when I was driving home from work, I saw PLENTY of American vehicles on the freeway (and I know CA tends to have more foreign cars than the rest of the nation). Maybe American vehicles only account for 25%(example) of all vehicles sold, but that 25% is HUGE! Did Americans love American SUVs? Did Americans love American pickup trucks? You sure bet they did !!!!!!!!!!!! What the U.S. automakers need to do is retool/reshape that success into cars. I was actually at odds with myself today ... I saw many diesel HD Silverados on my way home and I kept thinking "that's a beautiful vehicle," yet I know the fuel consumption is not viable long term. The American designers have shown us that they have the ability ... they just haven't put that same styling effort into cars.

Good point. If we continue the same trend we are in right now, in 100 years from now, Americans will be poor, and the Chinese will be outsourcing American labor at $5/day.

Good point. Toyota sales were down 34% in Nov. from Nov. last year.
GM Sees 41% Drop in Sales as Auto Makers Continue to Struggle - FOXBusiness.com