GM bailout rant

Since GM is so successful in China, let him go THAT country and ask THEM for some money to bankroll his failing operation!

 

And here is the epitome of irony, brought to you by the dumbass Congress of the United States of America:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/56311-gm-ceo-drives-chevy-volt-washington-sort-5.html

The gist of the message is:

The breakthrough came when House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said $25 billion in Energy Department funds for the development of fuel-efficient vehicles could be used to keep the automakers operating if there is a “guarantee that those funds will be replenished in a matter of weeks so as not to delay that crucial initiative.”

So, sure, why not...let's bailout the Big 3...give them the money they were supposed to use on "the development of fuel-efficient vehicles" and let the Congress just give it to them so they can continue "business as usual".

Is this the dumbest idea yet? After all, who needs those "fuel-efficient vehicles" anyways? Or isn't that part of the reason the Big 3 is in the pickle it finds itself in right now?

Obviously, the US Congress doesn't "get it" either!

 

my main concern is that if they fail anyway, we're not getting the money back. more realistically, if that situation occurs, we'll keep infusing cash to keep them operational. throwing good money after bad, in hopes that we can continue to prop them up for however long.

 

The US made things and sold things, the only way to generate real wealth.

 

And we sold them to a world devastated by a world war. We had factories and they didn't. That was a big help in the late forties and fifties. Then we helped the Japanese rebuild their economy, and they had newer factories than ours. They had to learn or perish. We took a little longer on the quality side, since you really didn't need quality when you had the only product in town.

Tom

 

That's what I thought.

 

We have been told for two generations that we no longer need to make things and it will be better for us if we leave that to others. Now we are paying the price. We import most things and we export middle class jobs.

 

Toyota also employs UAW

 

To my knowledge only in California in a joint venture with GM and in a Subaru plant in Indiana.

 

GM could have engineered cars like the Prius. They had Electric cars in the past and got rid of them because of their back door deals with the oil companies.

Don't you dare blame the UAW workers for the problem, when the company agreed to their contract demands while continuing to produce cars they knew wouldn't sell.

They need a bankruptcy, but not necessarily just for the reasons you mentioned.

Rick Wagoner is one of the most slimy, disgusting jerk-off CEO's out there and should be drawn and quartered, much less made to step down. And he shouldn't get any kind of severance package either- because the UAW workers that are taking a big pay cut shouldn't have their pay cut go into his pocket.

 

I like the double standard. The UAW should get their pay because that was what the company agreed to, but Wagoner's contract should be void and he gets nothing. Are we sticking to contracts or not?

The UAW is not taking a pay cut, that is the whole problem. The new UAW contract sets up a two tiered pay system but doesn't effect current worker's wages. NEW hires start at a lower wage, not current workers. Since the automakers are cutting employees, not adding them, the hourly rates stay the same. Also UAW workers are getting paid to leave, while the white collar workers are getting kicked to the curb.

The UAW is not the the whole problem but they are part of the problem. I have worked in UAW plants and in Japanese plants and the attitude is completely different. The Japanese plants stress teamwork and sense that everyone is responsible for doing whatever is necessary to get a quality product out the door. The UAW plants have a very strict work to contract mentality. There is very real peer pressure not to do anything extra.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota drops the NUMMI plants after the current contract expires. Toyota has lots of production capacity specifically at the new Tundra plant in Texas.

I expect to see the UAW to start offering wages that are reasonable and competitive in today's market. I see the most recent UAW contract with Delphi as what all future contracts will be benchmarked. The UAW dropped from an average wage of $28 per hour to a range of $13 to $18. That is still good money for labor requiring only a GED.

Part of the problem is the battle between the UAW current workers and its future workers. The current workers obviously don't want to take a 50% pay cut to match the prevailing wages for similar work. However, if the UAW has any hope of a future it needs to negotiate based on the present not the past. They have started by offering two-tier wage systems where the current employees keep there wages and new hires receive cost competitive wages. Of course this only works if the current works retire or take a buyout. In the Delphi case, current workers got $101,000 to walk away.

 

I see you've fallen for a stereotypical response ... all UAW workers are lazy, eh? Why not call them stupid while you're at it? Maybe group a few minorities together, and you can tell us THEY are lazy too? That's really sad. The UAW are not treated with the mentality that is created in Japanese plants, because in U.S. plants, the hourly get NOTHING, unless they force management to do the honorable thing. Japanese plant managers treat their workers with MUCH more respect.

As for the difference in Wagoner's contract & the hourlys? This is another travesty. Take my personal experienc with the Disney Company. We got rid of Eisner, because he, like Wagoner, are slime balls. Guess who Eisner appointed over the executive compensation committee. His own personal attorney. That's the kind of self dealing that goes on all too often at that level. As for the hourly? Sure, they get to sign the contract put before them, but often, the business agent nowdays simply tells the union members, "you better take it, or they'll just lock you out & you'll lose everything". More often than not, it's true.

Even our president elect says we ought to get rid of that creep. In bankruptcy, a trustee is appointed, and from what I see, they'll do a heck of a better job then wagoner. But the VERY worst thing about not letting GM go into bankruptcy is stated here, in the last two paragraphs.

My Way News - Obama suggests some auto execs should lose jobs

BKO is no big deal. Airlines do it all the time, & come out much stronger, and with less dead wood. I hope & pray the Volt makes it, but the rest of the company will prevent that from happening unless they go 11.

Basically, being short on paper, to simply print more money (putting more debt on U.S. citizen's shoulders) our wonderful government would rather choose to rob funds from environmental car production, so that 'more-of-the-same-GM-land barges can be paid off. Then of course, GM will go banndrupt anyway. Unbelievable.

 

I have been in manufacturing plants with the "screw the management" groupthink. It's impossible to change, often because the management is suffering from "screw the union" groupthink. The most horrifying aspect is that the vast majority of the workforce can be incredibly productive with nothing more that a different work culture....but years of considering each side to be the "enemy" is permanent.

I'm sorry, but jhinton did not say that, nor infer it. There is a BIG difference between employees and Union management. He stated what he observed first hand, and it is a total match to what I have observed first hand. It has very little to do with laziness and much more with workplace culture.

This section I liked much better.

 

It isn't that we were told we no longer need to make things and it will be better to leave that to others...it's that it's too EXPENSIVE to make things here and the OTHERS have done it cheaper, and in most cases, better!

We have no one to blame but ourselves. Wages and benefits are runaway here. The unions, although beneficial, have shot themselves in the foot. And the foreign markets undercut our prices by using dirt cheap labor.

It doesn't take a Nobel prize winner in economics to figure this one out.

 

I'll give you a little background. I grew up in Saginaw, MI which was a GM town with 5 plants at one time. Many of my family and friends of the family are union members. My mother is a teacher and a union member. I have worked as a Teamster at UPS during college and worked in UAW plants as an engineer after.

I never said UAW workers are lazy or stupid. Some are, but they are a very small minority. Most UAW workers I have worked with are very hard working and dedicated to doing their job well. The problem is the definition of their job. The UAW is a very top down structure and from your first day on the job you are taught a "work to contract" mentality. Each person has a very specific job and that is what you do and you do it well. That is unless your UAW representatives tell you to slow it down and cause problems around contract negotiation time. The idea is that if you do anything extra, you are taking someone's job and they may lose that job next contract if management sees that someone else could do it. So you don't sweep up around your area at the end of your shift, that is the janitor's job. You don't restock your workstation when the line is stopped, that is the material handler's job. ETC, ETC, ETC Some people will buck this and do what needs to be done. A lot of them do it because it makes their job easier and go smoother. However, these people are outsiders in the union and will never move up the ladder.

My experience as an engineer in a union shop was nothing but frustration. I wasn't allowed to touch anything or help in any way. My job is to maximize the efficiency and quality coming off my production line. If we were having a bad day falling behind I couldn't fill in and help. I couldn't help the material handlers stock the line, I couldn't help the shipping guy box his parts, I couldn't help the new guy with his off-line subassembly. All of these are strictly union jobs. If a machine goes down and stops the line I couldn't check it and reset it. That is the job of maintenance so I had to call and wait for him or her to come and hit the reset button. If I touched a part or help in any way I've taken work away from a union employee and would have a grievance filed against me. The person who's job I'd "taken" would get an hour of double time in compensation. That little reward of double time makes sure that people are vigilant in reporting violations in work. I couldn't even go to a station that had work-flow problems and experiment during breaks or between shifts but instead had to have a UAW member with me and actually touch the parts and tell him what to try. I would get no feedback or recommendation on improvements because that wasn't their job, it was my job as the engineer to improve workflow.

If you would read my post I also said that the UAW is not the whole problem but part of it. The work environment is very confrontational on both sides, not just the union. Management expects everything to be done perfectly to the contract. After all, if you are going to work to the contract it needs to be done. You don't get anything that isn't in the contract and we'll try to get rid of as many workers as possible at contract time because we won't get another chance for 3-4 years. Way to much time is spent fighting over what the contract means and both sides have dedicated personal to do this.

Now in the Japanese owned, non-union, plant I was expected to help out. After all, it was my my job to ensure maximum efficiency and quality from my lines. If we were having a bad day I would help the team leaders and troubleshooters with the line. I would help the material handlers stock the line. If we were having a really bad day the engineers, technicians, and team leaders would run the line during breaks and lunch to get caught up. We also did this around holidays so the workers could go home a 1/2 hour early. When the line was down, workers would restock their line, pick up dropped parts, or clean their area and machines. If the line was down for more than a ~ 15 minutes, they would be assigned off-line tasks or help people on another line. My first week on the job was spent going down the line and working each station for at least an hour. This way I got to meet the employees and get a feel for what they do every day. It also helps to have hands-on experience with the process when trying to improve it. Employees were always giving me recommendation on how to improve workflow because improvements made their job easier.

BTW, my Japanese managers did not treat me or my workers with respect. They treated us as lazy, stupid, inferior Americans. My company actually limited their contact with line workers due to moral issues.

No, that would be the union leaders telling their members "this is what we negotiated, take it or leave it" Very few companies "lock out" their employees and shut down. Usually they will work under the old contract until a new contract is agreed upon.

 

Are you ready to make wage concessions? Your wages are in some way tied to what the people making things bring home. Others countries make things cheaper...sometimes, but far too often the reason they are cheaper is the foreign governments are subsidizing them.

 

Good post, and right on the money. I grew up in Michigan, and have spent a lot of my adult life here as well. Jhinton hits the problem right on the head, and also expands on the cause of the "groupthink" mentioned by the previous poster.

The whole union/contract arraignment causes a we/they mentality that is really bad for business. Of course if we look at things historically, unions were forced into existence by greedy bosses. The problem now is that the cure has become the disease. This is a classic pendulum situation, where the system oscillates back and forth over the optimal solution.

Tom