1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

First Grill Block/Interesting Results

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by KAR IDEA, Nov 26, 2008.

  1. cheeper

    cheeper Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    154
    5
    1
    Location:
    Greene Co, NY
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    KAR IDEA, Thanks for the idea! This adds a bit more insulation. :rockon:
     
  2. KAR IDEA

    KAR IDEA Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    465
    8
    5
    Location:
    Lake Peekskill, NY USA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    you're welcome cheeper.

    One more observation I have made in the last couple of days, is the amount the MPG goes down just after initial startup on a cold morning. I believe an EBH is in order here, as Efusco mentioned at the start of this thread. Even on a 55 degree ambient temp day, on warm up the MPG drops by about 1 or 2. This morning for example, I started the car and the readout said 44mpg, then after the warm up idle (I usually don't move the car until the engine shuts down after initial startup), it read 42.3

    I was trying to avoid getting an EBH, but now I'm certain I must get one...

    UPDATE: 5:49am Just ordered EBH from PC store.
     
  3. PaulHS

    PaulHS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    200
    19
    3
    Location:
    SE PA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The EBH and grille blocking complement each other well, so you're on the right track.

    With the EBH your ICE is prewarmed in the morning. No need to wait for the engine to warm up and shut down. Hit the power button, wait for the two beeps, and go.

    A mile down the road I may lose two-tenths of an mpg, but certainly not two mpg.

    The investment is well worth it.
     
  4. KAR IDEA

    KAR IDEA Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    465
    8
    5
    Location:
    Lake Peekskill, NY USA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    Last night I asked the superintendent if it would be ok for me to access one of the outlets in our garage near the ceiling, and he gave me the go ahead. If anyone said anything he said he'd warn me. Had to get a 100 foot extension cord, plug it in, then snake the cord along the pipes going across the garage, then down once I reached the corner, and then laid it along the garage floor where it meets the wall, until it reached the car. I had about 10 to 15 feet of cord left once I reached it...EBH still hasn't arrived, but I'm ready!!!
     
  5. cheeper

    cheeper Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    154
    5
    1
    Location:
    Greene Co, NY
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Will you lose power with such a long cord?
     
  6. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    2,817
    187
    49
    Location:
    Chesterfield, VA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    It doesn't seem significant. I also have to run a long extension cord, 125'. I put my Kill-a-Watt on it when I hooked it up the first time, and it still was drawing close to 400W.
     
  7. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    3,355
    300
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    I have some cable velcros that I bought in bulk at Fry's for real cheap to tie up my PC wires. They work extremely well for this job too.

    The ones I have are light grey on the upper side and dark grey on the bottom. I use the dark grey side and it matches almost perfectly with the grey of the pipe insulation to the point where you can hardly notice they're even there.

    BTW, I only blocked my grill for the first time last week. Lo and behold, the temperature dropped to the 20's the past few days. Pretty unusual for North Texas to have temps this low so soon. Where's all the global warming I've been hearing about???? :)
     
  8. KAR IDEA

    KAR IDEA Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    465
    8
    5
    Location:
    Lake Peekskill, NY USA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    Oh! Oh! I know where it is...now it's referred to as Global Climate Change. That's where your Global Warming can be found...
     
  9. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    380
    5
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    the only reason why I haven't blocked the top grill yet is because I've read that you should have a scanguage if you're going to do this to monitor engine temperatures just in case. Considering it's been under 40 degrees for awhile now, is this really necessary?
     
  10. KAR IDEA

    KAR IDEA Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    465
    8
    5
    Location:
    Lake Peekskill, NY USA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    I know there is an inherent risk, however, I am not using a scangauge. Based on many of the users on here who have a scangauge and do monitor the temp with a full grill block, I am fairly certain that it is safe, and the car will not overheat.
     
  11. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    WHy not drive during warm-up? It would lower your fuel consumption.

    Is it worth sealing the gap around the bonnet?
     
  12. KAR IDEA

    KAR IDEA Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    465
    8
    5
    Location:
    Lake Peekskill, NY USA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    Sometimes I drive during warm up, sometimes I don't. It's my understanding that if you sit and let the ICE cycle once (on/off) during initial start up, then the car enters the next stage of operation. I have observed, however, that starting the car and driving right away does not decrease the MPG as much as starting the car and waiting for the first cycle to complete.

    Those gaps are well sealed when the bonnet is closed. I believe their contribution to heat loss is negligible.
     
  13. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    380
    5
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Alright, I'm doing it tomorrow. Can anyone direct me to a "how to" thread? My searches haven't yielded anything too helpful as far as what product to buy at Lowe's, how to cut it, measurements, etc.
     
  14. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    2,224
    139
    0
    Location:
    Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    IIRC Home Depot's local prices for the pipe insulation are cheaper than Lowes, but we're talking about maybe $4 outlay vs. $3 so it matters little. Buy the standard lengths (6 feet). I'm using the dark gray polyethylene pipe insulation for 3/4" tubing for the top grill, and the 1/2" version for the bottom (this smaller stuff has a stick strip on it if you remove the plastic--I did not.) I cut to fit rather than taking precise measurements across a curved surface.

    For the top grills I first cut a section of 3/4" pipe insulation to a length that matched the grill width, then I opened the pre-made slit and cut the existing section lengthwise opposite the slit yielding two long sections. I then folded one of the halves lengthwise and pushed the doubled portion into the slats, with the bend of the fold facing out. The first time I relied on compression fit...and the insulation blew out after a week or so while my wife was driving. The second time I used plastic cable ties to strap the insulation on both ends (crossways across one of the verticals that keeps the insulation from pushing through.) Repeat with the other half for the second slat.

    For the bottom there are five slots and I've now blocked 4 of the 5. 1/2" insulation cut in slightly less than half length fits these covering two at a time. I didn't have to split these in two lengthwise, but I did cut slits vertically to match the vertical support bars of the slats so that I clould push the factory slit of the insulation back over the center slat between slots. Again I used plastic cable ties to cinch the insulation in place on both ends. (This time was easier as the horizontal slat is the attachment point to wrap around and is covered by insulation.)

    I'm relying on others' temp. guides vs. grill blocking, and can't address the temperatures myself since Toyota didn't see fit to give us a coolant temp reading. I'll probably add a Scan Gauge later. I'm not comfortable with a 100% block as I'm not the only driver and don't have temp reading.

    One plus of grill blocking is it greatly reduces the chances a rock will penetrate any of the cooling coils this Winter...something the Toyota dealer took pains to point out was not covered by the warranty based on an incident that had occurred to another customer.
     
  15. KAR IDEA

    KAR IDEA Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    465
    8
    5
    Location:
    Lake Peekskill, NY USA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    Hi Nooaah, I kinda just winged it after reading all the threads I could find on the topic. I'm sure they are the exact same threads you've looked at. I can describe for you how I went about it though, and hopefully that will help.

    So, I went to my local hardware store, and asked them to show me the kind of pipe insulation that has a slit and sleeves over pipes. They showed me and I purchased the 3/4" size. Each bag had 4 steel grey tubes, so I bought 2 bags. Back at home, I held up a tube against the slat I wanted to fill and eyed it to determine whether I needed to cut it or not. The top grill needed minor trimming, the bottom did not. Then I simply squeezed the tube flat with my fingers and pushed it into the space in between the slats, as far as it would go. There are vertical slats behind the horizontal slats, so don't worry about pushing the insulation in too far.

    This compression method has held so far, and I have not needed any ties or wraps (knock on wood). Went through the car wash no problem. Went through the snow storm we had a few days ago, no problem (there was snow and ice build up on the front of the car, the insulation was caked with it, still didn't budge, even after I chipped the junk off with a scraper). Look back a little ways in this thread to see how I filled the little spaces left behind on either side of the lower grill after filling it, by using left over pipe insulation cut into approximately 2 inch lengths.

    On another topic/EBH Update:

    Looks like someone put the kabash on my EBH plan today. The superintendent knocked on my door early this morning saying he was sorry, but that I had to remove the extension cord I planned on using because someone complained. I'm going to install the EBH anyway, it came in the mail yesterday, however, it looks like I will not be able to use the EBH at home, as I had planned. I will try and use it elsewhere, whenever the opportunity presents itself.

    Needless to say I am pretty dissapointed... :(
     
  16. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    380
    5
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Shawn and KI, thanks so much! I went to Lowe's and was able to get pre-slit 3/4" foam tubing for $1.75 per 6' unit (I guess they had a deal going). I also got plastic wiring ties.

    By the time I got back to the office, I didn't have time to install it. I'm going to do it in the morning before my morning commute. KI, I clearly made my purchases before your post but I'll try your installation method first.

    I'm not really understanding your explanation, Shawn. Are you telling me to cut the tubing in half (lengthwise)?
     
  17. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    2,224
    139
    0
    Location:
    Midwest
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    For the upper half I cut the 3/4" in half lengthwise (cross section will be a "C"), then folded one of the pieces to stuff it in the grill with the bend elbow facing out. This will only use about half of one 6' piece to do both upper grills.

    For the lower I used 1/2" and just cut to length stuffing it over the first slat so that it blocked slots 1 and 2 from the top. I cut partial vertical slits for each grill support so that it would slip back in making a better fit.
     
  18. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    380
    5
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Thanks, Shawn. I put them in this morning. The temperature was in the mid-30's.

    I drove my normal commute, which in this weather yields about 44-46 mpg (I do a little better on the way back). After I blocked both top grills?

    52.5 mpg!!! :D
     
  19. nooaah

    nooaah New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    380
    5
    0
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Update: 57.3 mpg round trip. The temperature went over 40 since the morning, but still.

    Thank you all very much! At what temperature should I remove the grill block? The temperature in Philly is very schizo and could be in the 60's next week and the 20's the week after.
     
  20. KAR IDEA

    KAR IDEA Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2007
    465
    8
    5
    Location:
    Lake Peekskill, NY USA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Three Touring
    You're very welcome! Nice numbers Nooaah! : )

    I was going to remove my grill block as the temps enter the 70's...