Toyota suspends work on Mississippi Prius plant

Do you think that the economic downturn might bring them back to life? I remember my Dad getting a small Toyota in the 1970s due to the gas crisis and thinking, this is the exact right vehicle for utility use. 90% of the pickups I see on the road are lightly loaded and towing nothing.

 

"WWGMD?" (What would GM do?) If GM, Ford & Nissan are leaving the market it seems to me the strategic long term move would be to stay in. Market share automatically increases while satisfying some number of customers. The seeds of Detroit's problems were sown with the abandoning of markets: Small cars, small trucks, electrics, hybrids. Write off or ignore enough customers and there won't be enough customers to keep you in business.

 

The Tacoma is maintaining sales in a decreasing vehicle segment. Compact and mid-size trucks combined only make up 3% of total vehicle sales in the US and they have been steadily falling as a segment.
VehicleVoice News: Pickup Truck Sales, September 2008 CYTD

New CAFE regulations go into effect for light-duty trucks starting in 2011. These are based on vehicle footprint (track X wheelbase) with greater fuel economy required for each segment.



As you can see trucks from 55 sq ft to 80 sq ft have almost the same fuel economy requirement. The entire truck fleet is no longer averaged. The effect of these regulations is to encourage manufacturers to build large trucks in order to avoid increased fuel economy requirements for smaller trucks.

This is exactly what has happened. Ford was going to replace the Ranger with a mid-size truck called the F-100. Instead they decided just to put a 4 cylinder ecoboost engine in the F-150. GM has announce the cancellation of the Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon. Nissan has announce they will get out of the truck building business and starting in 2011 will source a version of the Dodge Ram from Chrysler. Dodge has announced they will not be replacing the Dodge Dakota which Mitsubishi also sells as the Raider.

That leaves the Toyota Tacoma. Toyota has been showing the A-BAT concept which is a truck-crossover built on a car unibody. Will it replace the Tacoma? I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if it did, since Toyota has publicly talked about closing the plant where the Tacoma is assembled in 2010.

So we have 7 of 8 compact and mid-sized trucks cancelled and one that might be. I would say my statement that the compact truck segment is a dying breed turns out to be very accurate.

 

Small trucks like your Dad's Toyota don't exist anymore. The current Tacoma is as big as a F-150 from the 70's. They also don't get very good mileage. The V6 Tacoma and V6 tundra are rated exactly the same by the EPA.

I think we will have people that use truck for work and towing continue to buy full-size trucks. The light duty user may adopt what they are use in Europe and other markets, small car-based vans and trucks. Ford must think there is a market since they are bringing the Transit:



GM is bringing the G8 a car based sport truck:



I see things like this Fiat in Europe that would work fine for the average homeowner to run to Home Depot for a bag of mulch:

 

This begs the question, who determines what size truck a consumer buys? Is it the consumer or the manufacturer?

No question that the truck manufacturers have been selling bigger trucks. However, I would contend that successfully selling bigger vehicles is why the small truck market has been dismissed, not mpg targets (although both corrolate with your data).

It is also a contention that a small truck manufacturer may find themselves is a very good (relative) position in the future.

 

Hmmm.... Workers keep jobs at plant that doesn't produce cars? No bailout for you Toyota.

 

My personal opinion is that consumer has pushed the increase in size and HP. Americans like to super-size anything. I also think that experience with compact trucks have pushed people into full-size trucks. I had a 2000 Nissan Frontier with the V6, 5 speed manual, and 4wd. My very best fuel mileage was 19 mpg and it typically returned 16 mpg. It only had a 5 foot bed and was rated to pull 3500 lbs. After a year of owning the Frontier I was kicking myself for not buying the V6 Tundra the Toyota dealer tried to sell me.

I also think that small trucks will have a revival. I don't think they will be the traditional body-on-frame trucks that are sold today. Instead I expect to see smaller versions of the Honda Ridgeline or some of the car-based trucks sold in other markets. The new version of the VW Caddy would be nice.

 

Yep about Fremont, CA in the other reply. See Welcome to NUMMI.com for more info.

I took a tour of the plant a few years ago. It was the best auto plant I've been on so far. I've been on tours of a Nissan plant in Oppama, a Mazda plant in Hiroshima and the Toyota plant in Toyota City (IIRC, Tsutsumi). Yes I saw Priuses built there along with Camrys, Lexus ESes (IIRC) and other cars.

 

Reading the report and converting the numbers reported to column format:
% change Make Type
33.0% Chrysler Aspen
31.0% GM Malibu
4.7% Nissan Murano

-8.3% Toyota Prius
-12.8% Toyota Corolla
-18.6% Ford F150
-23.5% Ford trucks
-30.7% Honda cars
-31.5% Ford cars
-32.3% Toyota cars
-32.9% Honda trucks

-36.5% All cars
-36.9% All trucks

-37.3% Nissan cars
-37.4% Toyota trucks
-39.0% GM trucks
-42.0% Chrysler trucks
-44.0% GM cars
-49.0% Nissan trucks
-59.0% Chrysler cars
-67.8% Honda HCH

As a general rule, the ones in the lower part of the list are in trouble. Their production needs to back off. The ones above the line are less bad. Only the ones with growth are in good shape.

Bob Wilson

 

This

will do little to help the US auto industry, it's made at Elizabeth South Australia.

 

I would not be surprised if Toyota will make the Prius here, but will do it at one of their existing plants. The truck plant in San Antonio, TX could be converted to make the Prius alongside trucks in about a year, in my humble opinion.

 

Do you realize what will be left of the US economy if GM and Ford go down? Do you think you will still be employed? If so, which decade will you get your next raise? Detroit buillds small cars, small pickups, they don;t build a prius(8% of Toyota's sales) thats it. I am literally shocked so many people have no idea about macroeconomics.

 

bummer about the plant

surprised at HCH numbers...

not much of a slow down in Pri sales around here.

maintaining employment of the people at the plant is also surprising... what are they going to be doing? how many people are we talking about? are they being reassigned to other plants?

 

I'm aware that the Pontiac G8 and G8 ST (Sport Truck) are made in Australia. They are Holden products with slightly different styling. The US is only getting a 6.0L V8 version that makes 400 HP and goes 0-60 in 5.3 seconds.

Regardless of where they are made these vehicles can help GM if they make money. So they may not help the US auto worker but they could help GM.

I included that picture because it is representative of a car-based truck.

 

The shell of the plant isn't completed yet so you don't have many people on staff. Toyota has announced that they will complete the building so contractors will stay on the job.

The only Toyota employees would be a skeleton maintenance crew and security. I wouldn't be surprised if the sum total of Toyota employees on site is less than 25. (That is my guess, I've not seen a number from news reports)

 

but again, lots of personal beliefs and opinions.

Let me quote this article:

November 2008 Top 10 Truck Sales - PickupTrucks.com News

Now, what that says is that Trucks that are selling best are "small" trucks.

European delivery vans have nothing to do with US pickups. They are based on small car platforms, such as Yaris, simplified to the max for cheapest possible price and usually come with engines considerably smaller than Yaris in USA. Additionally, companies do not pay large tax for them as they do for passanger vehicles hence their huge popularity in Europe.

That Fiat pickup is not sold in most European countries and I have never seen one in my life .

 

Yes, we do. But histories of monumental mismanagement like shown here, have left
us wondering whether in their current form GM will do anything different regardless of
how much of our money they take;

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&refer=home&sid=ai5KpbywxqiQ

Your biblical prophet of doom diatribes and harangues are wearing thin.

Today's situation in the auto industry, in the economy as a whole, is the result of past
mistakes. But the solution is in the future. It must be preparred for now.

Given your long time involvement in the auto industry, I would like to see some positive
thoughts on restructuring that acknowledge the realities of possible bankrupticy, or
takeover, or severe downsizing, whatever, and are forward looking. In other words, make it real.

Can you do this?

 

OIC... ok, so no production people hired yet... first hiring would be management and security i guess.

malorn; just a comment since the dead horse is a masochist.

NOTHING lasts forever. Rome failed and we will also fall off the mountain top. Rome did not go away and neither will we... but lets face it. we are probably near ending our time in the sun.

2nd is fine. afterall, most of the world does just fine below us. china has released a "revolutionary" car recently. they will probably soon take over the void left by american makers and then it will be china and japan...

so what will we do about it?? probably the same we have been doing for the last 15 years.

 

What kind of attitude is that? I am glad you were not on the first boats at Normandy. Are you willing to pass on a second world nation to your kids. We do have a choice in this.

 

yeah dave, what are you, crazy? Everyone knows that the fix is simple. Ban imports, and buy a Yukon. Then we'll all be # 1 again, just like it says in the Chevy flag waving ad.