Volt Plant VaporWare?

But if GM is already SELLING the Cruze in South Korea AND will be selling it in Europe in 3 or 4 months: WHAT development? It is ALREADY developed AND being BUILT in EXISTING factories. I know that won't save any U.S. jobs (my pet peeve with the (used to be) BIG 3 bailout. But if the intent is to keep the company viable into the future, they have to have cars they can sell.

Sadly, the short term memory installed in a lot of people will have the "really cheap now" guzzlers selling off the lots leaving less demand for new fuel efficient vehicles when the price of gas heads back up.

 

Though the basic vehicle is the same there are differences between versions sold in the different markets. Emissions and safety standards are different. Gm also has to go through emissions and crash certification. GM can't just sell the EU or Asian version in the US.

 

How much different is the Aveo sold here? How about the Holden Commodore SS?

Note: the Commodore is called the Pontiac G8 here. I first saw one on display outside a GM dealership this summer, and thought "what the hell? They're selling Holden's in Canada?"

Only when I got close to it, did I notice the Pontiac badges. But the car is absolutely a Holden.

 

I don't know about the Aveo.

I do know that the US Pontiac G8 has different engines that the Holden Commodore. Both the V8 and V6 are different. It also has a different front clip and rear clip.

When I worked for Delphi we provided 4 different cockpits to Mercedes depending on the market. LHD US version, LHD EU version, RHD EU version, RHD Japanese version. This was due to differences in crash standards.

(LHD) Left Hand Drive
(RHD) Right Hand Drive

The other issue is volume. To replace the Cobalt and G5 Chevy would need to import ~200K Cruzes. I can't image they have that kind of extra capacity.

 

If the Volt is the difference between GM getting their bailout or going bankrupt, you'll be surprised how fast the Volt will become *THE* priority at GM.

 

The Volt is "THE" priority at GM. They have stopped all R&D work on all new platforms except the Volt.

As of today, GM has their loans; well at least the promise of $9.4 billion in loans. I will be interesting to see if the Volt continues to be "THE" priority.

I'd like to see the Cruze get back on schedule. The Volt is a nice halo car and good for keeping up on R&D but the Cruze will bring in dollars and save much more gasoline. I would also like to see them continue to expand their DI engine program.

 

Remember the latest GM hybrid technology:

Two-Mode Transmission

<crickets sing>
​

Two years ago, GM and partners were spending huge amounts of money, $1B., to develop the two-mode transmission. Knock on wood, GM may sell ~15,000 of them in 2008 in:

• $50k+, massive SUVs and Cadillacs

A two-mode transmission is huge and not suitable for mid-size or smaller vehicles. It is a hybrid technology designed and sized for 6,000 lbs class vehicles. As such, the two-mode remains an expensive and rare hybrid technology.

Wagner and Lutz have proven themselves to be idiots. They crushed their EV1s; destroyed the PNGV and their Precept plans; did everything they could to criticize hybrid electrics and discredit science based, global warming; and run their company into the ground. As a tax payer and soon major lender to GM, the first step is to find fact-based managers.

Bob Wilson

 

I went to the Holden Australia website and downloaded the 2008 Holden Commodore brochure

The engine displacement and power appear the same. Even transmission offerings.

The Holden brochure mentioned the emissions controls. So what is different about the engines?

The obvious difference with "our" Holden is the Pontiac badging and the fake front hood scoops. The headlights appear the same, and the front fenders sport the Australian side turn blinkers, which are mandatory in Australia.

The rear exhaust outlets appear the same, as do the tailights. The badging is different

Were they radically different? Eg, major structural differences, or minor differences in buttons, design of knobs, etc?

The photos of the Holden cockpit obviously had the steering wheel on the right side. Using Acrobat to flip the photo, the Pontiac G8 appears to have the exact same cockpit as the Holden Commodore SS V

Both have a Blaupunkt stereo, whereas GM appears to prefer Bose for the North American market. Both have the power window switches on the center console, not on the doors like we do here. The steering wheel appears to have the same exact design

In other words, a driver who has driven Pontiacs produced in North America, such as the G6, would be a bit baffled when first seated in the G8. A driver from Australia, obviously baffled by having the steering wheel on the "wrong" side, would otherwise feel right at home

What I find really interesting - and Pat Sparks will tend to foam at the mouth over this fact - is that after the exchange rate is factored in, a Pontiac G8 is *much* cheaper to buy here, than a Holden Commodore SS V in Australia is

Even after those Holdens - I mean Pontiacs - are assembled, put on a boat, and sent over to the West Coast, they are cheaper than a person in Australia could hope to buy one for

However, I would be curious to know what specific differences are applied to the Holden Commodore SS V to make it compatible for the North American market. Asides from moving the steering wheel to the left side, badging, etc.

 

But it could sell the U.S. version in the EU and Asian because it exceeds their standards?

This is what I find stupid. Make one car that meets the standard of the place that has the highest requirements. Then sell that everywhere as it will meet standards everywhere. It costs more? So what? There are always cars that cost more. Make a low cost model, a medium and a high that meet the one high standard. What you lose in sales you gain in saving on manufacturing costs because you don't have to make a bazillion different versions.

And you can use the superiority of *your* car in marketing it.

 

Some standards are things like bumper dimensions. It may not be physically possible to make one bumper that meets all the different market standards.

 

The G8 and Holden Commodore come off the same production line here in Elizabeth South Australia. The G8 is exported a complete car with all the badging in place from the factory. The drive trains are identical. There are obvious differences in the driver location and front panels, the G8 is made very ugly by using the Pontiac front. Our seatbelt standard may be different, out seatbelts lock in heavy braking and cornering as well as if you pull the belt fast.
Believe it or not some simple Australians purchase the G8 front panels and Chev badging for their Commodores, sickos. Oh the US uses larger more powerful airbags, well they did when seatbelts were not compulsory in all states.

It is worth noting Australian emission standards follow US standards pretty well and our crash standards I belive use ANCAP for crash testing and our cars meet US crash standards.

Anotehr edit, The engines in commodores are imported from North America somewhere. Aussies used to be able to make an engine but not any more.

Holdens are exported to the middle east too. I think as Chevs. They may even send a hand full to the UK.

 

I think UK and Europe get the Vauxhaul versions.

The G8 is a corvette engine.

The car is cool, but no real Nav?

 

I agree. If somebody gave me a G8, I'd have no choice but to get a proper bonnet and front from Australia.

BTW it was -30 C last night. Feel free to pop in any day for a visit

 

That is far easier said than done. I also doubt you will get a favorable response in the EU or Japan by claiming US standards are superior.

To answer jayman's questions on cockpits. The cockpits were cosmetically the same besides being RHD or LHD. Structurally they were quite different. For example compare the EU LHD to the US LHD. European crash standards are based on a occupants restrained by seatbelts while US standards are based on a 180lb unrestrained occupants. These leads to different structures required for different standards.

The US version has an aluminum accordion structure under the steering wheel. This is designed to crush in a controlled manner as an unrestrained driver hits the dash with his knees. It is important to restrain the knee to keep the occupant from "submarining" under the dash and then being hit it the head by an expanding airbag. However, this structure was stiff and could lead to lower extremity injuries with a restrained occupant as their legs extend and hit the underside of the dash area. To fix this, the newest model has a knee airbag that deploys before the main airbag. The purpose of the knee airbag is to keep an unrestrained occupant in position while and protecting the legs of a restrained occupant.

The EU version has not of this expensive crap. In Europe you are expected to wear your seatbelt and if you don't you're out of luck. The EU version has closed-cell foam under the steering wheel to protect a restrained occupant's legs.

There are other differences on the passenger side as well.

What this adds up to is that the tooling for these two versions are different even thought they produce cosmetically identical products. Even the retainer, the plastic part that forms the backbone of a instrument panel is different. A retainer die is about 8 feet tail, is measured in tons, and costs more that a million US dollars. All of the secondary tooling and fixtures are different as well.

I made a mistake on the engines. It appears that they are the same as the Holden version for the G8 sedan. I was reading about the G8 ST (Ute) and it will have the DI V6 out of the Cadillac CTS

"According to Edmunds, the new G8 ST will also be available with a V6 engine. The new mill won’t be the same V6 engine used in the base G8 sedan, but rather the direct-injected 3.6L V6 used in the Cadillac CTS."

Update: Pontiac G8 ST to feature direct-injection V6 - MotorAuthority - Car news, reviews, spy shots

Oh and people are well ahead of you on replacing the Pontiac sheet metal.

"The kit is the development of JHP Vehicle Enhancements, and it will transform the Americanized G8 into a dead ringer for its Australian ancestor. It includes a new hood, hood latch, hood insulator, and a front bumper fascia extension. You also get an upper grille radiator, a front bar fascia, a front bar absorber and front fog lamps. The entire package will cost $1,990"

Holden Commodore conversion kit for Pontiac G8 - [2009 Pontiac G8] - MotorAuthority - Car news, reviews, spy shots

 

Gotcha. To cure folks who refuse to wear seatbelts, maybe use the seatbelt/occupancy sensor. If the person in unbelted, instead of an airbag deploying, a nasty looking steel cutter barb deploys. Like what you'd use bow hunting, but around four times larger

 

I don't know about broadheads on steering wheels but I would love to see world governments agree on a set of emissions and safety regulations. It would save the auto industry billions of dollars and therefore should lead to lower prices to the consumer. Common regulations would also allow automakers to quickly shift products from other markets as demand changes.

I don't see this happening though.

 

It would either reduce the emission and safety reg in the US or it would destroy the car industries in emerging nations.

 

Let me rephrase that. I would love to see the US and EU agree on a set of regulations. I would be even more delighted if Japan would get on board.

Again, it won't happen.