4,200 watts of Pure Sine Wave power

Excellent!

Make and model of UPS?

Bob Wilson

 

Looks like " my Tripp-Lite SU6000 power module (UPS)."

 

I want to install a system capable of running a 1 hp sump pump. Would a 1Kw (1.2 surge) pure sine wave system be adequate for that? I want something I can run off my 12 v battery.

 

That would work, but it would be illegal. In other words, you intend to "backfeed" into the breaker box, by first ensuring the main breaker is switched off, to prevent backfeed into the grid

To meet appropriate electrical code, you must use an Automatic Transfer Switch to isolate the utility from the backup. Another option is to use a breaker box with manual transfer: you put the "essential" loads on the backup side, when the utility fails you manually reselect the essential load.

Schneider Electric Canada - Solutions, Products and Services in Electrical Distribution and Automation and Control

Much like reselecting essential for an aircraft. Although a cumbersome solution, it does work and is legal. There was a recall of some Stab Lok breakers a few years ago, so naturally American inspectors claim all of them are bad. Not like Square D has ever had any recalls or defects

I'm curious what you paid for that 6000 watt UPS. They are usually far more expensive than a decent commercial inverter.

The only downside is that the dc input voltage you are supplying is at the lower limit of what that UPS is capable of using. Is there any way to use the UPS software to adjust the input and output thresholds?

The UPS may start to overheat if loaded past 50%, at the input voltage you are using. The only way to know for sure is to run tests. Most good UPS's monitor their temperature, so make sure to keep an eye on this. There is either a LAN port, serial, or usb on the UPS that allows you to monitor UPS performance

 

Probably not. Motor starting current is much higher than running amps. The motor info plate, usually attached to the motor, will state the "code" of the motor (Such as G, D, etc), the KVA, LRA (Locked Rotor Amps) etc

Eg: a typical 1 hp code "G" motor will require upwards of 600% of its rated running amps, to start.

During starting, a motor will typically have Power Factor of 0.3-0.5. A generator will struggle a bit, but can match this requirement usually in one step. An inverter expects to see 1.0 PF loads, and usually cannot match the PF needed if it is rated for the running amps only

Remember that a motor is an inductive load, and issues with leading and lagging PF will cause problems for most unsophisticated inverters. Another issue is output, you have a "pure" sine wave inverter. A square wave or sawtooth output inverter will cause rapid (over) heating of a motor load

All I can suggest is a test with the actual inverter, to see if it works. Realistically, you may need at least twice the rated motor load to reliably start the motor

 

If you plan to use the Prius HV DC system to power the UPS you'd better make sure its' charging voltage is not too high for the NiMH Prius battery. Otherwise you will destroy the Prius battery in a few days (cause it to force out electrolyte). The maximum I'd allow would be 1.3V per cell.

This could be expensive, as you have already voided any warranty on the hybrid system.

 

Gosh damn, that IS a good price!

I have most of my UPS experience with the Silcon three phase systems. However, if you wish, I can look into this some more. I'm hopeful the TrippLite software can be used to define lower operating limits for the DC input

 

awesome.. that's cheaper than a new generator..

 

I downloaded the manual from the TrippLite customer support site. The software allows you to define upper and lower limits for transfer from utility to battery. You can monitor temperature and voltages too

However, the actual battery warning is not user defined, sorry to say.

Note that the way you have configured the UPS, this is known as a "cold start." Although cold start is NOT recommended by UPS manufacturers, it will work. I would not recommend going away from cold start in your application.

If you should happen to hook up the utility feed to the UPS, once the power comes on, the UPS will attempt to rapidly charge what it sees as a critically low battery, the Prius. The results could be spectacular

Note: you may have noticed what appears to be a phone or RJ45 network port in back of the unit. Whatever you do, DO NOT attempt to plug a network cable or phone cable into this port!

The port is for the EPO (Emergency Power Off) requirement. Per code, many commercial UPS installations require the use of an EPO for personnel and fire safety. Eg, during a fire, the fire department wants the ability to hit a remote "panic button" to depower all loads, whether supplied by utility or UPS

Nope, no experience. Their website really sucks too. Apparently, they went through a Merger/Acquisition with Schneider Electric. The large three phase units are carried by Schneider Electric, the smaller units are - to add confusion - carried by Eaton

Schneider Electric has software support manuals, but apparently as the Pulsar EXL is considered obsolete/unsupported, they could give one s*** about helping you

A lot of the earlier ups's with internal batteries, with connectors for extended runtime external batteries, must have the internal batteries present. They will not work without them, as they will sense a fault.

I would suggest removing the internal batteries. They are either 6v or 12v batteries. You may be able to find a cheap online source of generic batteries the same size. I've done this in the past to help a client muddle along with an orphan product until they could justify purchasing a new ups

Note: what I charged them for this service probably exceeded what a new ups would have cost!

 

Good idea. You should be safe

I'm not sure of the size of those internal batteries. Doing a quick search online of the most common sized internal UPS battery, for a large application, was about $24 each. Thus, $960 to bring that system to new operation

I suppose when you factor the normal price for such a large UPS, that's still cheap. It's up to you I guess

Possible, but risky

Any large UPS with a number of batteries, is a "widowmaker." All it takes is to drop a wrench on the bus, and you get a first-hand view of what a dead short looks like when powered by many batteries

Dang. She had already booked our tropical vacation!

 

Actually you've solved a problem. I couldn't tell how identify which UPS were in the Prius battery voltage ranges. But looking at the Tripp-Lite web site, they list all of their external battery packs and the equivalent UPS units:

SU5000-xx
SU6000-xx

These look to be the ideal sized units for 240 V battery systems.

I also saw one Ebay listing for an APC board that carried an SU5000 part number. I'm wondering if APC is just low-end, Tripp-Lite. I also found a Chinese company offering sine-wave UPS but I didn't see their price.

Regardless, now there are options.

Bob Wilson

 

For a UPS, the isolation transformer is usually used to connect the UPS power module to utility power. There are advantages to using an isolation transformer to filter and isolate the input, UNLESS you intend to use it in conjunction with a generator!

By default, the power module will only supply 208/240 power. So you *need* the transformer to supply 120 vac. The options are 240, 208, and a couple of 120 outputs. It's pretty easy to unbalance such a transformer by putting all the 120 vac load on just one of the 120 vac outputs

In practical use, I wouldn't worry too much about trying to balance the output. This is a far more serious concern for three phase UPS's, such as the Silcon line. It won't remain on for 24x7x365 use, like it would be in a datacenter or telecomm room

That was strictly CYA on the part of TrippLite. Otherwise, if they happen to tell you something vague or incorrect, and you manage to electrocute yourself as a result, then MrsK could really take them to the cleaners

The older Matrix line was durable but is also discontinued. I can't remember if it provided split 120/240 output.

The current products, like Symmetra, can be ordered with a 208/120 stepdown transformer. Otherwise, the input is 208/240, and the output is 208/240.

The Symmetra and SmartUPS three phase are 480/3ph input, and 480/3ph output. There are a variety of power module transformers to step down to single phase 240/208 and 120

Just act natural and pretend you don't suspect anything. Yes, the "sacrificial" food taster is a good plan. Also check the shower drain to make sure that pesky 240v dryer plug wire has been removed

 

Slightly off-topic question, but are y'all electricians, electrical engineers or just like to mess around with electricity? All the PriUPS projects fascinate me but I don't think I'd ever be willing to risk screwing with 240 volts of pure pain.

 

Systems Analyst, Chemical Engineer, with strong experience in industrial motor control centers, and MV/HV grid intertie