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Passive Homes - Amazing...

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by TimBikes, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    Even on the coldest nights in central Germany, Mr. Kaufmann’s new “passive house†and others of this design get all the heat and hot water they need from the amount of energy that would be needed to run a hair dryer.

    Amazing. See here.
     
  2. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    nice
    but in the picture i see one central heating radiator system between the 2 windows
    and its not electric

    and you dont place a central heating system in a home with just one radiator.

    so i think the home got a central heating system with radiators but with the great insolation the house got its almost never used!
     
  3. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    I like it but there is more to it than sealing and heat recycling.
    Note the carpet does not extend to under those south facing windows allowing the sun to warm the concrete floor in winter. I suspect it has high internal thermal mass inside that insulation.
    Also the house is not big so there is less wall and roof to lose heat through. I don't think there is a home cinema or pool room in that house.
     
  4. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    mmm maybe its AU standards or US standards but a home cinema and pool is not part of normal standard EU housing.
     
  5. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Not really a pool room but here is my house. North is down. (North is where the sun is here)
    [​IMG]
    By patsparks at 2008-12-23
    The grey areas are verandas. I might add that in the area where I live my home is very small. Some homes in the area are twice this size and more, very few are smaller(2 or 3). My house is a single level bungalow of 135 square metres (1453 square feet) living area. It is actually a dreadful design for energy conservation. The 2 courtyards increase the external wall area over a similar size square building a lot!
     
  6. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    Pat,

    Cool, is this a stock plan or custom?

    Too bad the laundry couldn't be fit in with the bedrooms which typically is
    both the source and storage for most laundried items.
     
  7. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    I edited my last post a little.
    It is a modified stock plan. We increased the size of the bathroom and divided it into 3 areas. When we built the house we never intended to have kids so the laundry was preferred by the master bedroom. My son is pretty well trained now as far as his dirty clothes etc go. The retractable clothes line is under the veranda adjacent the laundry and we never use the laundry external door which has been locked for years now. There is a spa (hot tub) under the other veranda and the pool is at the corner of that veranda but not under it.
     
  8. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    from the article
     
  9. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    yes i read that and i can see whit my eye's thats not the fact
    not all you read is a fact!

    thats small radiator you see between the windows is a central heated one with hot water line's connected to it! you dont have a small central heating system only for 1 radiator
    then you have a electric one!
     
  10. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    Could it be partially powered by stored hot water in a solar or geothermal heated hot water tank which also supplies the homes hot water needs? Could it use a heat pump?
     
  11. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    I think you are jumping to an unsupported conclusion. There is enough different about what they are doing that it is hard to say what they are doing with the radiator.

    For instance, as a backup system for a house that used a circulating blower as they apparently use (air exchange system), they might have some sort of fuel based system.
     
  12. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    It does say that it is part of a row house development. Is it possible that the radiator is on a shared boiler system (that, perhaps, also provides hot water)?
     
  13. grand total

    grand total Member

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    I think blower may be too strong a word for it. I have experienced the sort of system I think they are talking about (a heat recovery ventilator) and you are not aware that it is operating because it is virtually inaudible and you are unaware of any air movement.
     
  14. Sacto1549

    Sacto1549 Member

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    Actually, you can dramatically improve the efficiency of your house by doing the following:

    1) Increase the insulation all around the walls, floors and roof to the USA R38 standard.

    2) Replace all windows and sliding glass doors with Energy Star-rated units that keep the heat out in summer and the cold out in winter.

    3) Weatherstrip every door that goes outside the house.

    Once you do these three watch your utility bill drop like stone in water. :nod:
     
  15. randyb359

    randyb359 Member

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    How does one insulate wall to r38?
     
  16. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    The problem of course is that it would cost a fortune and portions can't even be done on many existing homes. You aren't going to add much R value to exterior walls or cathedral ceilings because you are limited by the depth of joists/rafters. It might be possible to add some insulation board when residing, but that will usually only gain about R5 per inch of thickness.

    I've done insulation work recently on my house and there is only so much retrofit that makes economic sense. Changing out windows isn't going to payout unless your old ones have to be replaced anyway. (Lucky for me the windows here are recent vintage.)

    If you do your own work and are rectifying deficiencies in original construction then you can get relatively short paybacks with insulation. And by deficiencies I mean areas that have little or no insulation. (When doing the calcs for already insulated areas the return was dismal for energy prices here.) In an attic space I replaced some R19 with R30 and used the R19 to fix some uninsulated places, replace damaged insulation, and to cross stack with other R11 or R19. I also insulated a previously bare basement wall.

    If you have an existing home, I suggest you focus on sealing cracks first to cut down on drafts. Bitterly cold windy days are great for finding the air leaks (but you might need warmer weather to seal them.) I went through two tubes of sealant around windows where air was leaking between the frame/trim/wall.

    Also, look for uninsulated/unsealed/non-weather stripped areas like access panels to storage areas, attic access, and attic/whole house fans. The loss rates there will be much larger than wide expanses of properly insulated wall/ceiling. I did some of my best and cheapest improvements by cutting some 1.5" thick (R7.5) extruded polystyrene board to glue or otherwise affix to or block these areas.

    Another big problem in some homes is leaky duct work. Old ductwork installation is often haphazard. When I started examining my HVAC ducting closely I was appalled by the original construction. The air losses were allowing alot of bypass, leaks at the HVAC unit, air being pulled from the attic into the house, air ingress through registers and air ingress through returns. Unfortunately, much of the duct work is enclosed between floors or such, but I used about two tubes of sealant to fix gaps in the sheet metal, seal return gaps that could pull from the attic, seal every register, seal ducts running through uninsulated storage space (wrapped a large one with insulation as well.) I really wish all of the ductwork was exposed so that I could seal it.

    When replacing worn out HVAC there will be an opportunity for improvement for many depending on the age of the home. For example, at present with my 81% efficiency furnace and 12 SEER (nominal) AC there is not adequate justification for ugrading to a 92%+ efficiency sealed condensing furnace and 15 SEER or higher AC with a more efficient variable speed blower. However, when it comes time to the end of its service life is when the incremental cost of the upgrade will be easy to justify.

    Another thing I suggest before replacing the HVAC: get your duct system in good shape first (sealing), do any planned insulation upgrades, do any planned window upgrades, and seal exterior leaks first. Once fixes/retrofits/improvements are complete it will be easier to determine the proper size for the replacement unit. (This is somewhat analogous to maximizing electrical efficiency improvements before doing your PV system sizing.)
     
  17. Sacto1549

    Sacto1549 Member

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    Shawn,

    The biggest change I did to my house was to replace all the windows and sliding glass doors with Energy Star-rated units. This results in dramatic reduction of heat loss through the windows (e.g., lot lower winter natural gas bills!), not to mention a much quieter house because these windows also provide considerable sound insulation, too. :)
     
  18. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    Sacto,

    My windows are recent vintage, don't know if they are EnergyStar or not since the previous owner did them as part of a major upgrade. I can only go off what I see (no model numbers) but they appear to be good quality double pane, low e. I've looked through the manufacturer's data and it appears mine would fall within the criteria for Energy Star.

    I've been sealing up the leaks around the frame. This is the area that does not appear to have been well done during installation. However, I can't blame this on the windows.
     
  19. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    I did the same at my mother-in-law's condo over the xmas holiday. I noticed a small strip of daylight, and then we went around the house and discovered that many of the windows had almost no seal at all! There was a ridiculous amount of cold air streaming around the bloody frames! I sent her out for some silicone caulk and I recaulked the windows as best I could. It was shocking how the frames had detached. I wonder if the seals were compromised by the building settling or something. If not, the installation was rubbish.
     
  20. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    Well thought out,, well written. One thing to add. Instead of spending mega bucks on exotic window, (beyond double glazing) consider adding window quilts, or warm windows, or at the very least duette type insulated shades. A popular misconception is the amount of heat lost through glass. In rough numbers, a single piece of glass, with calm air on the inside and calm air on the out side will have a R-value of ~R1. Add a draft on the inside from a fan or furnace or convection draft and drops to near 0. Add a wind on the outside and it drops to 0. It is the still film of air that gives a pane of glass any R-value at all.

    Now, add a second layer of glass, with a sealed airspace, you get ~R2! Take away the film of air inside or out, and the R-value drops back to R-1. So you can see that adding triple or cuts the heat loss by 1/3 which seems like a lot,,, until you consider that going from an R-19 to an R-36 in the ceiling cuts the heat loss (in that component) by 1/2 over a much bigger area, AND that savings is much bigger, much cheaper.

    So instead of investing in exotic glazings, your money would be way better spend adding insulation in the ceilings or floors or wall. Then, adding a well build window quilt, or warm window fabric, sealed window blanket at night can have a net R-value of ~R-10,,, a much better energy savings at a muc cheaper price. Other options are fabric covered foam panels that pop in the window openings at night, and o really cold days on non-sun facing windows, or those in unused rooms.

    Icarus