2010 Model disappointing to me

OK, so far, so good, but what does that do to 'city' mileage? If they also bumped the capacity to run in EV, that would be good. Perhaps the ECO mode will allow the 'city' MPG to stay high? After all, one of the reasons non hybrids get lousy city mileage is that their engines are sized for highway power which is 'wasted' doing nothing in the city.

 

You could. Of course most of these Chinese cars crash test about as well as a 1960s VW beetle

Rob

 

Au Contraire!! That is EXACTLY why PHEV are GOOD! 80% of the time you drive EV only. The 20% of the time you need to go farther, you can still drive YOUR car, instead of renting. I was pretty amazed at the Ford guy gushing over EVs and how everyone will want to buy one. Did he NOT notice the EV1 didn't sell well BECAUSE it had limited range?? GM at least DID figure that out and that is why the Volt has the 'on board range extending power source'. Until you can quick charge 200 or 300 miles into an EV in 5 minutes, or swap the 200 to 300 mile range batteries at a 'battery station' in 5 minutes (now there is a serious 'chicken and egg' infrastructure problem not to mention getting all the vehicle manufacturers to agree to a common battery connection design), pure EVs will NOT be big sellers.

There are GREAT uses for them. For instance WHY is the post office delivering mail in the city in anything OTHER than EVs? If you have the space and money for multiple cars and do a lot of 10 or 20 mile trips, you might buy one as an additional car if it is affordable. But EVs will not sell in big quantities as a primary family car in a '100 miles then recharge for hours' model.

 

It's rather telling that in a related video for a Chinese 4x4 test, they take the dummy out of the vehicle in pieces afterwards.

 

Not to single any one person, I wanted to wish that everyone who compares the Prius' acceleration to the Camry should cease - they are two different cars that serve two different missions. The Camry is setup to be stylish, sporty, and quick/fun to drive. The Prius is setup to b e stylish, sporty, and economical/fun to drive. Two different missions.

Recently I drove an 09 Camry loaner while the dealer was repairing my accessory plug and I must admit I was not happy with the Camry. It was quick, alright, but the interior was too 'sterile' and it wasn't as comfortable getting in/out of as my Prius.

 

You are quite right, that was fairly tongue-in-cheek

Rob

 

Hi Pat,'

Well, I imagine that if you are liking the new car, Wayne is also! I personally can't wait to see it in person, sit in it, have a test drive, and try out the "Bum Warmers"... Maybe we can trade our "05" in for this one...lol... From what Wayne told me, this car is awesome, and that Toyota outdid themselves... It is great that it gets 50 MPG, hell, ours on a good day and a good trip can get 70, so imagine what this newer one could do.... Some people are just not good at change... personally, I like change...

Anyways, looking forward to seeing you Thursday night! Take care of my babe ok? Have fun!!

Teresa

 

I really like the looks of the new 2010 Prius. By the specs it appears the new Prius will be improved across the board. I think Toyota was careful not to tinker too much with a hugely successful model. There are plenty of things to get excited about beyond MPGs. The Prius will remain the undisputed gold standard of hybrids.

The 3rd gen Prius will be at the top of my shopping list when I go to trade-in my 2002 CR-V. Unfortunately I may have to wait a few years before I can afford one. Maybe by then the kinks will be worked out. Actually, I don't expect there will be a whole lot of those.

 

From pictures and what I have read on the 2010 model, my expectations have more than been met. I like the looks in and out. I am really waiting to find out the cost and when they will be available since that will affect my decision making greatly.

 

I asked the chief engineer about the larger engine also. He explained this to us. The original Prius was desinged for the Japan driving experience. There are very few highways and usually the speeds do not exceed 60 KPH (as he said). His goal on the 3 gen was increase the highway MPG. To do this, he increased the size of the ICE to allow lower RPM at highway speeds.

Note: this is a duplicate post from above. Mods please delete.

 

I find the above very amusing. It assumes that GM will actually build the Volt, which seems unlikely; and it assumes that the specifications and pricing will be as GM is presently claiming, which would be even more unlikely if they ever built the car.

Also, you've given up on the Prius, which actually exists, after one year of waiting, but you are willing to wait two years for a Volt, which does not exist and has never been built, and which even GM itself admits it has no battery for.

Finally, you're willing to abandon a brand that has the world's best record of reliability, in favor of a brand that has a very poor reliability record.

I agree with you that the 2010 is not sufficient to justify trading in your 2004 (I, too, drive a 2004 and will not be trading up to the 2010) but it would make more sense to wait and see who brings out a PHEV first, and see how it performs, rather than announcing categorically for a car that does not exist, and whose availability date is a pipe dream.

Thanks for the clarification on this. This would actually be good for me, since I no longer drive my Prius in town. I only drive my Prius when I need to go farther or faster than the Xebra can go, which is to say highway driving. On the other hand, it seems pointless to buy a new Prius when I so seldom drive my current one.

 

Only from PC info I'm impressed with what is coming from Toyota. The mix of packages and costs may cause diapointments but the total improvements and options look great. I'll certainly go to the local dealer to get first hand impressions in April but right now I'm still excited.

 

All I am saying is, I no longer feel it's worth tying up $500 for the 2010, since with the release of this announcment, I know it is not going to be a PHEV. GM did sign a deal with LG Chem to produce the batteries, and the volt will be built, GM's future depends on it. See this link:
Bloomberg.com: Energy

BTW, there is another forum http://www.gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?p=19765#post19765 you might want to check that out.

Let's face it, Toyota is probably too conservative to release the PHEV first (worried about engineering / battery life and other such non-sense ), GM has very little choice, release the product and perhaps try and save the company, or fade into oblivion.

Edit: It's too close the the release of REAL EV's and PHEV's, in my opinion, for Toyota to be delaying this any longer. With the 3 mode system, I am sure they could retrofit this full PHEV operation, yet they publiclly say it will not be upgradeable. I've had enough, Toyota, my next car will be a PHEV or an EV, nothing else is acceptable at this point, for most existing Prius owners. There is not enough there to warrant spending any new money on the 2010, if you already own a Prius.

Mitch

 

not happy because it's not a phev?... if anyone has been paying attention for the last year or two.. toyota has said they will not release it first... so. it's clear.. it was not going to be a phev...
that's like being dissapointed the new prius isn't an EV....

 

was just about to say the same

I'm kind of surprised how many folks are popping up saying their disappointed the 2010 isn't a phev, or doesn't get 70mpg. I thought Toyota had been very clear for a long time. No plug yet, no Li-ion yet, ~10% improvement in FE with more power and interior room. What we do get is a very nice update of the Prius line, that should serve as an excellent platform for li-ion and phev when they are ready for prime-time.

Rob

 

Toyota is not too conservative. The reason is because of the cycle times of the Li battery has not been verified. Toyota will not release a product that will not perform reliably and meets the EPA required warranty period.

Some battery vendor claimed that their battery pack can sustain 3000 cycles, but the testing has not completed and no certification available today. Testing the battery will take two to three years to complete. That is why GM and Toyota will not release the product till 2011 or later.

Just be patient, affordable PHEV and BEV won't come till 2014.
The 2010 Prius is going up in price.

 

You must have been asleep for the past year since you put down your deposit. The 2010 was never foreseen to have a PHEV option. Why would you have thought so? For at least 18 months it's been known that both Toyota and GM delayed the Li-Ion options in order to do more engineering validations.

Good luck on your wait for a Volt.....@ $40000 !!!!!

 

Sorry, but that doesn't even make any sense. I don't care about quality or reliability, I just want a PHEV now. The only thing worse than not having PHEVs now, is having a crappy one now. The public relations nightmare that would accompany a spectacular failure of the first PHEVs would probably kill the entire PHEV/EV movement. Just think about how many people still (10 years later) are more than happy to write off the Prius as an environmentally destructive, energy sink hole driven by yuppies so they can pretend they're saving the planet while drinking their Starbucks capacinos. Give them an actual example of a production PHEV experiencing widespread battery failure, or heaven forbid a catastrophic battery failure taking a human life, and its game over.

Had this been a production car, with a mom driving who couldn't get her kids out of their car seats in time would we even still be talking about PHEVs?
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/51283-prius-a123-battery-fire-report.html

For anyone who actually cares about the PHEV/EV movement, the wait for a production PHEV, while frustrating, is well worth it if it means they get it right. Given their vast experience advantage, and highly methodical nature, I have a lot more confidence in Toyota being able to pull this off than any of the auto industry talking heads out there promising miracles. That doesn't mean we don't still need customers and competitors keeping the pressure on to make sure these cars get built. It just means we don't need a rush job trying to cash in on eco-chic.

If you really want to be on the forefront of PHEVs, buy a conversion. That goes a lot farther toward showing Toyota and everyone else there is demand for PHEVs than giving $500 to a dealer who just pockets it, because Toyota has told them there is no definite timeline for PHEV release and they shouldn't be taking deposits. Sometimes you have to put your money where your mouth is.

Rob

 

How much do you expect a PHEV Prius with a 40 mile electric range to cost? Will it be less than $40,000? I seriously doubt it. I doubt that it is even possible in the 3G Prius platform.

I'm a little bit surprised at you daniel. We have not been waiting a year for a PHEV, we have been waiting for a decade. Both GM and Toyota put out excellent electric vehicles in 1997 and then killed them in 2003. We have been waiting for an EV or PHEV ever since.

 

Toyota's 2010 packages and options were carefully chosen to maximize efficiency versus the features offered. You can't get the 17" wheels or LED headlights with the Tilt/Slide Moonroof: Solar Ventilation System and Remote Air Conditioning System due to the combined hits against the mpg. The combination will keep the price point down. The $50,000+ price mentioned in a previous post is ludicrous as that would place the Prius in a comparable market to the new Lexus hybrid.

The plug in is being carefully designed and tested and Toyota WILL release it when they feel it is a safe reliable option for the dollars invested by the consumer.

With Toyota's stance on fuel efficiency and their success, I will wait any amount of time on Toyota plug_in versus opting for a GM product. GM has only recently started ramping up on their fuel efficiency system, and the two-mode is definitely not a stellar product that enhances their position.