Finally a battery we can use!

this was before lithium ion.

but i once charged a laptop battery that belgarion gave me with my car battery. i jumped it to the car battery and then let go "when it felt warm", i believe i was able to get 3 charges before it died. heh

it was charged to 100 % in under 30 seconds if i can remember correctly.

 

I was at CES and Toshiba was quoting 90% charge in 10 minutes for SCiB batteries vs. 90 minutes conventional lithium ions batteries.

I recall them also claiming that after 6000 cycles, they've only lost 20% of their capacity. Most of the other reports and press releases I'm seeing seem to only indicate a 6000 cycle lifetime (which is still VERY impressive) and nothing about the even more impressive 20% capacity loss after 6000 cycles.

 

The Toshiba batteries use lithium-titanate, same as Altairnano's batteries.

Altair recently showed a 30 kWh (enough for 150 miles EV range) titanate battery being charged from zero to full in under 10 minutes and the pack barely got warm!

For this rate of charge you need a standard 3-phase 440V connection.

 

that would be neat if they made this into regular laptop battery packs. like something that will fit my old dell 700m

 

The standard in the battery industry is to declare the battery end-of-life when it can no longer charge to more than 80% of capacity. See for example here:

"The amount of charge a battery can hold gradually decreases due to usage and aging. Specified to deliver 100% capacity when new, the battery should be replaced when the capacity drops to below 80% of the nominal rating. Some organizations may use different end-capacities as a minimal acceptable performance threshold."

So the other reports are correct but incomplete.

For an interesting analysis of hybrid and PHEV batteries, see this section of the same site. (I disagree about diesel - but note that Toyota have got improved fuel economy from the 2010 car by improving the engine, not the battery, which is actually identical.)

 

The act of charging any battery creates heat, and heat is what kills a battery. Charge it too fast and it gets too hot - shortening its life. I wonder how they got around this - to be able to charge their lithium-titanate batteries withoug creating so much heat? Do they use some kind of system to remove the heat rapidly?

 

Ya never know ... it may be that the new chemestry over comes the "heat = deterioration" scenerio. We sunk a bunch into their stock, years ago and the values kept sinking lower & lower into the tank, year after year. We hung onto it anyway. Hopefully this will bring the value of their company back up to 'par'

 

The "non-heating to destruction" is a function of the battery chemistry and physical construction. e.g. use large interconnection bars.

NiCad and NiMH cells start to heat up at 80% charge. In other words, they become inefficient at charging and convert about 50% of the charge energy into heat. Which is one reason the Toyota engineers don't charge the Prius battery more than 80% full. These cells are also not as efficient in accepting charge up to 80% full as the new LiIon chemistries.

-Most- of the improvement is in the chemistry. Some is in the construction.

We're getting there, slowly. "There" being having batteries that are good enough for practical EV use.

 

Not only that but they are "mucher safer than other types of lithium ion batteries, which are potential fire hazards"

Remains to be seen. Guess we wouldn't need to worry about alternative energy sources if we knew we can not accomplish that.

Not so standard in the U.S.A. 110 standard household, 220 for big amp appliances like electric cooking stoves and clothes dryers.

 

A typical house has 200 amp service at 240 volts, which is 48kW. This would take 40 minutes to charge a 30kWh battery, assuming no losses. It also assumes you shut off everything else in the house -- A/C, hot water, etc.

A more realistic value would be 50 amps, which would take 2.7 hours, but probably substantially more time with losses.

A 15 amp 120v outlet (a standard household outlet) is 2.25kW, or 13.3 hours to charge a 30kWh battery with no losses.

 

Very cool, looks like a great battery.

However, not what I have been waiting for. IMHO what we need isn't a new battery. What we need is someone to make a good quality existing battery in high volume at a low cost. What we need is significant research into charge/discharge and balancing/management algorithms to make batteries last as long as possible under real world conditions. We need to tweak existing chemistries and designs to maximize specific energy, specific power and minimize production costs. There are batteries that are plenty good enough for PHEVs, and good enough for EVs now. Heck, there were batteries good enough for EVs 10 years ago. We will always need newer better batteries for the future, but whats lacking today is implementation and larger scale volume production.

My 2c, dismounting soap box

Rob

 

I have many customers who have been waiting for this to happen "next year" for the past six years. I've personally been hearing it for about 15 years. When and how will this excitement come to be?! 1/20th the cost is in the realm of "too cheap to meter."

 

These new battery chemistries are exciting and have great potential. My Xebra has an aftermarket LiFePO4 battery pack (the second link in the OP, but from a different manufacturer) and my Porsche (if it ever comes) will have the same. They are supposed to be good for 2,000 charge-discharge cycles. At present they are so expensive that you use them because you are committed to electric, not because you think you'll "save money," but as economies of scale bring the prices down, and oil becomes scarce, they will become economical.

Fast charging is important because it helps create the bridge to the electric highway of the future, when you can take road trips, stopping at recharging stations along the way. But with 40 miles of range in my Xebra, I never have to charge it fast. I plug it in when I get home, and it's charged when I need to drive again. The Porsche (if it ever comes) will have a 125-mile range, and I NEVER drive farther than 100 miles in a day except on a road trip when no present-day EV would suffice. Thus overnight charging at home is all it will ever need. It will have a 220-v charger, however. I had no choice on that. It will plug into the dryer circuit, and I won't be able to charge while clothes are drying. Unplugging the car before drying clothes will be a very minor nuisance, but will not be a problem.