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Should I get a Blu-ray player?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by daniel, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    I use my PS3 as a media center, only rarely playing games. The PS3 is an incredable Blu-ray and DVD player - pretty much second to none in my book. The PS3 is also great for digital photos. You can show them from a memory stick, copy them onto the PS3 hard drive, or access them over your network from a media server. I have all of our digital photos on a Linux box running mediatomb. Any time we want to see a photo or watch a slide show, we can bring it up directly from our big DLP television via the PS3.

    You can also rip CDs to the PS3 hard drive. This can be handy if you want extended background music for a party. It's just like using an iPod without the iPod.

    If you are a real techno geek like me, you can also dual boot your PS3 to Linux. It's fairly easy to set up Ubuntu on the PS3 - Sony has the ability to add a second OS built right into their gaming OS.

    As for the resolution question, the resolution of Blu-ray is 1920x1080. The "p" or "i" indicates whether the siginal is progressive or interlaced. A progressive signal paints the entire screen on each frame. An interlaced signal paints every other line on each frame. Each offers the same resolution, but interlace works at half the speed. For a stationary image it would make no difference, but becomes more of an issue with motion.

    The PS3 is my top pick for a Blu-ray player. I have had one for the better part of the year. I also second the suggestion of buying the dedicated movie remote control - it's not expensive and makes operation familiar.

    The PS3 loads faster and performs better than almost any other Blu-ray player. Its Internet connectivity allows for easy firmware updates and support of all Blu-ray Internet features.

    One the negative side, there are no front panel control buttons other than power and eject. All control operations are displayed on the TV screen, so finding a particular track on a CD involves turning on the TV, or blindly going from track to track with the remote control. Obviously this isn't an issue with DVD or Blu-ray, but it is for listening to music CDs. It's a minor point, and not a serious problem.

    Tom
     
  2. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Thanks for all the additional information.

    To clarify: I'm using the Sony Cineza VPL HS51 projector. I'm projecting an image that's about 5 feet wide, that being the width of my projector screen. So references to TVs are not relevant to my case.

    Sounds like the consensus is that Blu-ray is worth upgrading to, but there are differing opinions as to whether my projector will deliver the full quality.

    What's the native OS in the PS3? Is it Windows, or is it proprietary? If I install Ubuntu will I be able to play discs from Ubuntu, or would that just be to be able to dual boot into Linux for other computing stuff? And more importantly, is a Ubuntu install idiot-proof, or would I need to hire a Linux geek to get it to work? (Caveat: I don't need a Linux desktop. My iMac is all the computer I need. I only ask about Linux because if the PS3 runs Windows that's a big downer for me. I hate Windows.)
     
  3. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    Nope no windows. Blu-ray discs will play within the PS3 interface which is very pleasing to the eye. It will also match the resolution of your projector if it is 1280x720.
     
  4. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Okay, I just phoned Crutchfield, since I bought my present system from them. He told me that my projector is 720p and therefore would not produce the full quality of Blu-ray, although Blu-ray on my system would be an improvement over DVD. All those numbers I posted earlier apparently are the input types my projector accepts. It will accept a 1080i input, as well as many other input types. But its output is only 720p.

    He said that he'd recommend a Blu-ray player rather than a PS3 because of the easier controls (and maybe because they don't sell the PS3), but the bigger issue is that I paid $2,500 for my projector, and the 1080p projector would cost $3,500. Amazon has it for $3,200. There's a VPL-HS51 on eBay now that's up to almost $200 with 6 hours to go; in other words, my old projector isn't worth squat.

    So it looks like a full system upgrade, with the cheaper price from Amazon and selling mine on eBay, would cost me around $3,400. Doesn't sound worth it. Or I could spend $400 for just the player or PS3 and get a half-assed upgrade.

    Looks like there are players as cheap as $300. There's a Samsung for $209, but I never buy the cheapest of anything.
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Alright. I figured out the question to ask:

    Full Blu-ray is 1080p. My projector is 720p. So how many p is plain DVD?
     
  6. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    480.

    I wonder what he meant with "easier controls" for other players besides the PS3. I use a regular IR programmable remote control with my PS3.
     
  7. koa

    koa Active Member

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    There's lots of good info at the AVS forums. There's forums just on projectors. Costco just had a great BR player on sale for $227 after rebate. It was a Panasonic BD35, a highly review unit. You do know all these player still play regular DVD's also? I have a feeling sound is not a big issue with your setup since you didn't mention your speakers. One of the things to consider is HDMI. If you do have a receiver without HDMI you won't get the higher sound quality out of the cheaper BR players.
     
  8. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    I am sure he means that there are buttons on the front of the player. I don't see it as a big issue.

    PS3 uses its own OS - not Windows or "normal" Linux. There is no need to dual boot to Linux unless you want to use the PS3 as a "normal" computer. Otherwise you do everything right from the PS3 OS. You can even surf the Internet from the PS3 OS, but it's not as nice as with a real browser. I use a wireless Bluetooth Qwerty keyboard with my PS3 for any sort of text input, the Blue-ray remote for watching movies, and the six axis controllers for playing games. All of the controls operate through Bluetooth.

    Tom
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    So if I get the player but not the projector I essentially go from 480 to 720, and if I get the projector I go to 1080. 480/720=0.67 and 720/1080=0.67 also. So the player alone gets me halfway there. Or inversely, the player alone would be a 50% improvement, and the projector would be another 50% improvement on that.

    Someone else on this thread said that the PS3 has no controls on the unit. The guy at Crutchfield, who does not sell PS3s, might not have known about the remote. And, hey, he wants to push what he sells.

    I have a pretty decent set of surround speakers and the DVD player, which is also the receiver, connects to the projector via HDMI.
     
  10. Fibb222

    Fibb222 New Member

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    If the image is 5 feet wide or more AND if you sit close (within 8 feet) buying a new projector ($3000+) and BD player ($250) would improve the picture quality significantly.

    BUT if you sit 10 or more feet away, then your 720p projector and an upscaling DVD player (<$100) will get you close to the picture quality you seek. IMHO.

    Also, do you have a receiver/projector that can handle the HDMI connections commonly used for bluray today?

    OOPS: partially answered in previous post by Daniel, but does the receiver have HDMI inputs? If not you might need a new one to do this upgrade.
     
  11. Alric

    Alric New Member

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    Regarding the audio. Blu-ray players and the PS3 have a digital audio output in addition to the HDMI connection. I connect all my devices using HDMI for the video and digital audio out to a receiver for the audio.
     
  12. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    That's what I do too, but only because I'm too cheap to replace a perfectly good A/V amp with a new one, just to get HDMI inputs.

    I did have a problem where I couldn't get surround sound for some Blu-ray disks with my setup. I had convinced myself that the disks had an audio format unsupported by my amp, and I was going to have to spend big bucks on an upgrade. I had frogged around with bitstream formats and all sorts of audio settings with the PS3, but nothing quite worked the way I wanted. I revisited the problem a few weeks ago, and the audio setup menus on my PS3 have been upgraded (I keep it up to date over the Internet). Now there are two simple screens: The first says "HDMI or Digital Optical", the second has check boxes for supported formats. My DTS box was unchecked. Doh! Now it works fine.

    Speaking of surround sound, I have two 15" high excursion subwoofers driven by a 1000 W subwoofer amp. The low frequency effects on some of the Blu-ray disks are outstanding.

    Tom
     
  13. Fibb222

    Fibb222 New Member

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    HD Audio is good but not worth a lot of money i.e. don't upgrade your receiver for it.

    In some cases there is a work around: some higher end blu-ray players decode the two HD audio formats (so your receiver won't have to) and some can even output them to analog 5.1 or 7.1 receiver inputs (which is good if your receiver has them).

    I decided to not get a BD player that decodes the HD audio as my speakers weren't good enough to make use of it anyway. I'm happy with SD DVD quality audio.
     
  14. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

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    The trouble with blu-ray 1080p on a 1080p TV is it makes regular HD TV reception of 1080i or lower seem very conventional. And 1080p TV programming is not yet available.
     
  15. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    This is getting to sound complicated. All for a still rather small number of available movies.

    I sit about 7 feet from the screen.

    And while I could buy a new projector if I really wanted one, and while I'd like a better picture quality, I don't think I want it badly enough to spend $3,000.

    Now I see that my tuner/DVD-player has HMDI out, but not in, and appears only to have RCA jacks for audio in. So if the Blu-ray player cannot drive the speakers directly, I would not get the fancy audio.

    At this moment I'm leaning toward sticking with what I've got, and revisiting the question when they stop releasing movies on DVD.
     
  16. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    There are a LOT of movies on Blu-ray. You could do what I did, which was wait until my DVD player went to the big recycler in the sky. At that point I pretty much had to defecate or exit the bathroom, so I bought my PS3.

    Given your setup, Blu-ray will be better, but not astonishingly so. I have a 1080p DLP television that sits right in front of my face - think of the sort of view you get at a good theater. With my setup, Blu-ray is noticably better. Regular DVDs are better than they were with my old DVD player because the PS3 does a better job upscaling. Some 1080i HD cable channels are almost as good as the 1080p Blu-ray, but many do too much compression.

    Now that I am used to Blu-ray, the progression is like this:

    1) Blu-ray - awesome.
    2) 1080i cable - awesome on some channels, very good on others.
    3) DVD - still really good, but noticeably grainy compared to Blu-ray.
    4) Digital television, not HD - fair but watchable if necessary.
    5) Analog TV - only on a bet.

    Tom
     
  17. jrmgkia

    jrmgkia Wish I was cycling

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    Daniel you sound like me, you want a better picture but without breaking the bank or getting too complicated. Let me put it to you simple. Go to Costco, buy their up-converting Sony DVD player for 50 dollars (it plays all your normal DVDs it just up-converts them to 720p). It appears from the spec sheet that your Projector has an HDMI input on it, the Sony DVD player comes with an HDMI cord in the box. However if you need a longer HDMI cable buy it on ebay for $10 vs. $100+ at best buy, the signal is digital so a 10 dollar cable delivers the exact same data (1's and 0's) as a 100 dollar cable. You will notice a world of difference with your upconverted DVDs, and to be honest with a 720p projector you would hardly notice a difference between the Blu-Ray player and the upconverting DVD player. In fact we have a 720P TV and I can hardly tell the difference between a normal DVD being played on our upconverting DVD player and my friends Sony Blu-Ray player on our TV. So there you have it, 90% better picture for about 2% of the cost, problem solved.:)

    I agree with John that in a few years physical mediums like CD, DVD, Blu-Ray will be on their deathbed. People laughed at Steve Jobs when he said the same thing about CDs a few years back. They are now laughing at him with the Apple TV and the notion that DVDs/Blu-Rays are soon to be irrelevant. But he is right, physical media will continue to die as our home bandwidth continues to rise. He already proved everyone wrong with the iPod, and eventually it will happen again with an Apple TV kindof device. Just my 2 cents.
     
  18. Fibb222

    Fibb222 New Member

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    Good idea.
     
  19. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I suspect my DVD player might already be up-converting. The image is considerably better than it was with my previous system. I used to use the DVD reader in my computer, connected to an older projector. The pixels from this projector are smaller (i.e 720p vs probably 640 or 480 or whatever from the old one) and since I bought the new system as a package, I think they'd have sold me an up-converting player with the 720p projector. I certainly paid enough. It's a good system and produces very nice quality, both audio and video.

    Maybe I'll skip Blu-ray entirely and wait for download quality to reach 1080p. By then my projector will need replacing.
     
  20. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    So a couple of things to add here:

    1. You don't always have to upgrade the receiver. I spent the extra $100 on a Panasonic DMP-BD55 player which has 7.1 out and decodes ALL of the HD Audio codecs. This was cheaper than $5-700 for the new Onkyo receiver that I wanted to replace the one I have that's about 5 years old. I then pipe the analog output to my receiver in 5.1 mode and it sounds just fine (I don't miss the rear surround in my environment). For legacy codecs (DD-EX, DTS-ES, 2 ch PCM), I use the Tosslink optical to let the receiver handle the processing. I do miss receiver based HDMI switching and equalization in analog mode, but I'll live until I can justify the upgrade there. Prices continue to drop.

    2. I specifically did NOT buy a PS3 at the time of my purchase as I couldn't "justify" the > 170w power consumption for the PS3 to play Blu Ray discs when my Panasonic does just fine at ~22w. The newer PS3's are 30% improved, however that's still 130w+ during Blu Ray playback. The PS3 is not a purpose built Blu Ray player, and thus, CPU utilization on the Cell processor = higher overall power consumption. If this doesn't bother you, the PS3 is quite a bit faster w/ features from what I understand.

    For future proofing, make sure the players are Profile 2.0 (BD-Live) capable. Some of the content is in it's infancy, but there may just be that one disc some time you "wish" you could access that particular content on. Some of these players even support built-in Netflix streaming out of the box.