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Instantaneous MPG readings for best fuel economy

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by JimboK, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chogan @ Jul 9 2007, 02:56 PM) [snapback]475662[/snapback]</div>
    Shouldn't the pedal at 40% correspond to a specific MPH/MPG ratio? Maybe those with can-view could figure this out?
     
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  2. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ystasino @ Jul 9 2007, 04:14 PM) [snapback]475710[/snapback]</div>
    Hmm, good question. I'll keep an eye on that. Even better would be to look at it through data logging, the option for which I have with my Can-View. But I'm having some problems with data capture. Once I get the problems sorted out then I can tell what those relationships are for sure.

    Meanwhile, I was reading some old PC posts related to fuel economy, and I stumbled upon this. In particular, this caught my eye:

    " ... this means that instantaneous MPG is less than MPH but more than half of MPH." [Emphasis added.]

    Theorist, if you're reading this, I swear I didn't steal this from you. :)
     
  3. Doc Willie

    Doc Willie Shuttlecraft Commander

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    How is the LOD (engine load) readout calculated?

    Is this a useful parameter when trying to find the sweet spot (max efficiency)?

    I wish it were a vacuum gauge instead.
     
  4. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    I propose an update to the original rule. In short, for the average driver, don't worry about the low-RPM component of keeping iMPG below vehicle speed x 1.2 during ICE-on driving segments. First, as some have suggested here, it's a little more difficult to make that mental calculation on the fly. Second, recent reports from others suggest that sub-1400 RPM ranges likely don't cause a significant hit to fuel economy, and actually could help.

    Meanwhile, the high-RPM component of the rule -- keeping iMPG above half the vehicle speed -- has been further validated. I address it in the study results on high speed driving methods I recently posted, and Hobbit has confirmed it as well.

    I will add that Hobbit is not among the advocates of low-RPM methods, so depending on which approach you believe is best, you might choose still to follow the iMPG < (MPH x 1.2) rule. Or less precise, perhaps, but easy: simply keep iMPG less than vehicle speed during ICE-on.
     
  5. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Yet another update, or more accurately, more validation of the update I proposed in the previous post.

    The subject of how much go-pedal to give during ICE-on conditions still is a matter of substantial discussion. I don't care much for subjective terms like "brisk" or "moderate" acceleration. What is moderate to one person may be either brisk or gentle to others. The car's limited factory instrumentation certainly doesn't help. So I proposed an objective measure here that anyone can apply without added instrumentation.

    Low-RPM conditions are thought by many to be inefficient, and the theoretical power curves of the Prius seem to confirm this. That is what led to the iMPG < MPH*1.2 part of the original rule. But anecdotally, many hypermilers (me included) have reported good results with keeping RPM as low as 1200 or 1300. That pushes the iMPG well above the vehicle speed, perhaps up to x1.5. It also is gentle acceleration by anyone's definition, despite the subjectivity of the word "gentle."

    I have done some preliminary testing comparing various acceleration rates during pulse and glide, and the results suggest rates in the range of 1300 are at least as efficient as those in higher ranges. The key word is preliminary, however; the test environment was less than ideal (traffic disrupted my glides on the two-lane rural road I was using), and I'd like to repeat the tests in a different environment.

    Meanwhile, Hobbit recently has experimented using fuel injector timing as a surrogate indicator of engine load. The ICE really is inefficient when it's not running under load, and his view seems to be that as long as injector timing has reached a certain operational plateau, the ICE is loaded. Quoting him:
    "Even a fairly gentle startoff from the line yields injector times of high sixes or 7.x at ridiculously low RPMs like 1250, as high torque is produced to help takeoff."
    My own recent experience applying this and using injector timing as my load criterion (monitored in CAN-View) suggests that in ICE-on conditions at low speeds it's actually difficult for the ICE not to be under load. Especially from a dead start, after "goosing" the go-pedal just enough for the ICE to light, I show injector timing levels well above the "loaded" threshold even with these low RPM.

    So to summarize, what this means to me in the context of this thread is that at low speeds, the iMPG can be well above MPH and the engine still is under load and, therefore, the car accelerates efficiently. Again, this seems to validate that as long as the ICE is on, the low-RPM component of the original rule of thumb isn't terribly important.
     
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  6. GreenJuice

    GreenJuice Active Member

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    Thanks Jimbo for keeping this thread going. Your comments are helpful and square with my experiences too. I've been trying out Hobbit's INJ timing whilst watching RPM during pulses, using Scangauge for a few months now. Its very hard to keep injector times under 6 during pulses.

    I started out keeping RPMs sub-2000, then sub-1600, now (traffic conditions permitting!) sub-1400 - easing off the 'go-pedal' as speed increases.

    I have the impression this has had some effect as I have been able to maintain stable MPGs despite falling temperatures, but not enough facts to prove it at this time. For my commutes, unexpected and forced start-stops are what appear to be the dominant negative influence on my MPG.
     
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  7. ystasino

    ystasino Active Member

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    This comment involves situations during which the ICE is on. In short my limited experience is extremely consistent with what Hobbit, JimboK and perhaps others, have published. Since buying a SG II and returning from the a long trip to SC I have had significant success obtaining by +8 MPG over previous tanks, but with some slowing down on the highway.

    My most recent tank showed 54.7 MPG at fillup in the middle of the winter an improvement from the 46 MPG I got in December and last year when cruise control reigned. Most of the improvement has taken place on the I-95 where I keep the RPM between ~1440 and 1728 and also glide a little. At that RPM the Prius only manages modest acceleration on a flat road when the air resistance limits velocity to ~65-68 MPH. During city driving, I accelerate between the 1250 and the 1450 RPM marks, while suburban driving is a mixture of the two

    On prolonged uphill drives the Prius struggles at that RPM sometimes dropping to 50 MPH on my way to DC out of Baltimore. As a result I have decided to Pulse prior to uphil driving even reaching +68 MPH so that my momentum carries me uphill as much as possible. I only break the ~1750 or 1800 RPM mark if I deem it dangerous not to. As a result the trip to DC has become about 10-15 minutes longer.

    For those without a SG, you can roughly reach the highest efficiency ICE range using the following easy calculations:

    City acceleration: MPH=MPG
    Highway acceleration: MPH=MPG to 1.2xMPG

    For those of you debating whether to buy a SG, I can only say that having the RPM figure in front of me and knowing the Prius efficiency range, makes me feel too guilty to ignore. Essentially this process verifies the reasons I got the Prius and makes me feel that I made a good decision in doing so. Your mileage may vary!

    Again thanks to JimboK and Hobbit for their suggestions.
     
  8. tonymark

    tonymark New Member

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    After a fresh tank of gas and a mileage reset on MFD, I tried this technique on a 14.5 mile round trip to suburbs. It was rush hour on the way out and had a few hard brakes. Avg. mpg when back home 60 MPG. WOW! Thanks
     
  9. tonymark

    tonymark New Member

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    After a fresh tank of gas and a mileage reset on MFD, I tried this technique on a 14.5 mile round trip to suburbs. It was rush hour on the way out and had a few hard brakes. Avg. mpg when back home 60 MPG. WOW! Thanks