1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Screwing the environment again

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by daniel, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I'm at Rancho la Puerta, in Tecate, Mexico, with a few minutes between jogging and lunch, and thought I'd post this while I'm thinking of it.

    There are guided hikes here, and on the first Wednesday of each winter month there's a special, longer hike, that includes a stop at the fence at the border. The fence has a big hole in it, which is fine with me, because I believe in peoples' right to travel. But they're presently building a wall. We could see the wall on the flat country below our perch on the mountain, and apparently the plan is to extend the wall through the mountains and to the sea.

    The wall will not stop drug smugglers because they probably never use the land crossing, and anyway they have planes and boats. It won't stop undocumented immigrants, because whatever we do, they'll find a way across. But what it will stop are migratory animals. There are deer and bobcats and a variety of other animals that migrate across the border, and a wall will stop them, possibly exterminating those that cannot survive without access to separate summer and winter grounds.

    Maybe (???) Obama will reverse this stupid, useless, pointless, and expensive wall building, but if not, the demagoguery of xenophobia and the politicians' eagerness to sacrifice the environment for votes will have disastrous effects on the environment of the southwest U.S. and northwest Mexico.
     
  2. Dave_PH

    Dave_PH New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    2,416
    78
    0
    Location:
    Florida & DC
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    This should be in the tree hugger forum
     
  3. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    As long as the drug smugglers don't forget their kickback money, they have no worry about walls or "surveillance"

    You will remember the two border guards who were jailed for shooting a drug dealer. Shame on them for going off script
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,074
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    What we really need is a wall to keep the Canadians up north.

    Tom
     
  5. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I agree! Nothing worse than all those pesky Canuck snowbirds clogging up the highways and streets
     
  6. Fibb222

    Fibb222 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2006
    1,499
    99
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Canada is going to need a border wall to keep the yanks out when climate change starts to disrupt things big time down there.
     
  7. bac

    bac Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    863
    52
    0
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    The fence. Yes, what an incredible waste of time, money and effort. If Americans really want to stop the Mexican migration, then we need to find a way to make the Mexican's life better .... in Mexico! It can be done - if there was a will.

    Sadly, the fence-building demographic doesn't want to help the Mexicans - they just want to beat them down. There lies the REAL problem.

    ... Brad
     
  8. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    6,038
    707
    0
    Location:
    Tumwater, WA USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I have nothing but agreement for this thread. Daniel, you are right... that wall is environmental disaster for wildlife, and also for flooding... during the rare, monsoon like rains, they will hit that wall instead of flowing through..
     
  9. Dave_PH

    Dave_PH New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    2,416
    78
    0
    Location:
    Florida & DC
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Hard working returning Mexicxans can do a lot to improve life in Mexico, They've learned a lot from working with American Businesses. They can provide the middle class that will improve the quality of life in thier countrry

    *Warning Typed under the influence
     
  10. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    13,439
    640
    0
    Location:
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Considering how Canada is willing to give the Arctic region to Russia without much more than whiny complaints, I rather doubt something as "aggressive" as a wall will be built
     
  11. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    And another around Washington D.C. to keep us safe.

    Wildkow
     
  12. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    4,319
    1,527
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Wow, obviously the architects of this wall never bothered reading a history book. There is a problem to be solved and this makes it worse rather than better.

    Help me out by adding to the quick list of walls that failed:
    1) Great Wall of China
    2) Hadrian's Wall
    3) Antonine Wall
    4) Maginot Line
    5) Berlin Wall
     
  13. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I can name a fence that worked.
    The dog proof fence across Australia has successfully kept dingos out of Southern Australia.
    [​IMG]

    I'm not keen on fences or walls to keep people out. However that's easy for me to say, Australia has a rather large moat.
     
  14. donee

    donee New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    2,956
    197
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Hi Daniel,

    The only way to stop illegal imigation is to put about 80 % of the small construction related buisness owners for a few hundred less in jail for tax evasion. No politician has this license or guts. And this is just what goes on around here. I guess in Kansas its the bigger buisnesses, and the last time the IRS went through a meat processing plant there was all sorts of political repercusions.
     
  15. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    You are probably right. If the mods want to move it I have no objection.

    I don't want to stop undocumented immigration. I guess I'm a libertarian on this issue. People should have the right to travel. Immigrants made this country what it is (to the detriment of the Native American Indians, but to the benefit of everyone else) and immigrants are the hardest workers, and the strongest supporters of the American ideal.
     
  16. donee

    donee New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    2,956
    197
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Hi Daniel,

    Well, its illegal. The government has a responsibility to stop it. And to put those that violate that law in jail.

    If you want to make it legal, well, that is fine to. Start writing your congressmen.

    My people were 19 th century imigrants . But again, they were legal imigrants.

    The thing with illegal imigrants is they cannot complain to the authorities when unscrupulous bosses do not pay their employment tax, or pay any health coverage for some of the jobs that are most physically risky. I am sure there are a myriad of other cons these bosses pull using the illegal nature of their workers as the tool to get away with it. This is rampant in Chicagoland, and its turning getting basic work done into an adventure in criminality.

    People think they are getting by with cheaper labor, but in the end they pay the taxes that cover the expenses that these unscrupulous employers have cheated the government, and these workers out of.

    Its the illegality that makes all this abuse posible. Guest workers is a proper thing. Give em a 5 year visa, and so on. If they want to stay they can apply for citizen ship. All above board.
     
  17. TheAnnoyingOne

    TheAnnoyingOne New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    318
    3
    0
    Location:
    -118.15476, 34.112134
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius

    ...and once it is completed let's fill it with water:D
     
  18. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Your people had entry visas from the traditional land owners? Cool.

    What makes it legal if the right to decide who comes and who stays was stolen in the first place?
     
  19. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    4,884
    976
    0
    Location:
    earth
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Spoken like a true first fleet descendent!

    Icarus
     
  20. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,074
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Guns.