Honda sees brisk demand for new hybrid

Tax systems do some odd things to automobile designs. Look at the Isetta ( [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isetta]Isetta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] ). It was sold as a four wheeled car in most locations, but in England it had three wheels and no reverse. Why, because of tax laws. With three wheels and no reverse it was considered a motorcycle under English law.

English sports cars also suffered from tax laws. At the time, English law had some bias that penalized large pistons, so sports cars were built with small bores and long strokes. There may have been technical reasons too, but the tax structures contributed.

We see the same thing with sailboat handicapping rules. Come up with a set of rules, and people will try to beat them.

Tom

 

The exhaust heat recovery system will help a lot:


Bob Wilson

 

Speak about influence.
The tax system was based on statutory horsepower of the engine which was calculated on the bore of the cylinders multiplied by the number of cylinders, so Commer bought out an engine with three cylinders and 6 pistons which is commonly known as the Commer Knocker.

 

Rear legroom should be similar to other compacts like the Civic and Corolla. As Tideland Prius said, I also expect rear headroom to suffer. You probably wouldn't want to put anyone taller than 5'10" back there for long periods of time.

I suspect that they are emphasizing that it's a compact to people who are used to the amount of room in the back of a Prius which has significantly more room in the back.

People continually say that the Prius isn't good for high speed travel, but at least our Prius has always done well on high speed (75-80mph+) trips. Worst tank at those speeds was around 40mpg, and there was a good deal of cross/head winds on that one. There aren't any other cars I know of that can get 40mpg in those conditions.

Now, fuel economy does suffer when you start lead footing it from light to light. If the new Prius can do better there by keeping the engine in it's sweet spot during heavier acceleration and recovering more energy during braking, that would be welcome. There are several roads around here with high speed limits (45-55mph) and poorly timed lights that tend to turn red just as you are approaching them and just after you've hit the speed limit. You catch a couple of these and fuel economy will be in the high 20s. Still double normal cars which are probably getting mid-teens in these conditions.

If they could get the 2010 drivetrain in an even lighter vehicle (say 2500lbs instead of 3000lbs), with similar aerodynamics, that would make an awesome commuter.

 

Personally I think Honda Japan are selling Insights to people who have gone into their dealerships in the past few months to buy a Fit (Jazz), which is the top selling car in Japan. They are giving them a "only 20% more than the 1.5 Fit and you can have a hybrid!" sales pitch. I don't think they are making such big inroads into the Prius demographic, but we'll have to see this months final numbers.

The above suspicion seems to be borne out by sales data on the kurumart.jp Japanese website which shows that the number of Fits sold in the last few months has fallen much faster than Prius sales. Cars as a whole are down with the economic doom and gloom, but Prius sales are fairly stable at 6,000 a month. Fit sales have fallen from around 15,000 a month to under 9,000 in January 09. The Prius was the fifth best selling car last year, but only the fourth top selling Toyota.

 

Thank you!

This makes a lot of sense. There is an untapped market, the subcompact cars, that have not been 'hybridized'. Today, GM thinks 'Ok, the Chevy Aveo is good enough' as if some small, disposable, low quality, vehicle is all the poor buyers deserve. Nonsense, we tried the GM Chevette in the 1980s and my wife danced in happiness when it finally crashed into scrap metal.

The Yaris, Mini Cooper and a whole fleet of small, compact cars remain a virgin market for hybridization. The Honda approach works well for them and IMHO, I wish the Big-Insight good luck in that market. Watch out Corolla!

Bob Wilson

 

The Insight II is built on a platform sized like the Fit. If a tall driver sitting comfortably, the seat is against the passengers leg behind the driver. Head room is short as well. In Detroit, I took a picture of a 6'5" guy sitting in the cut-a-way Insight rear seat. His head was 3" to 4" above the roof.

 

SanZan's sales numbers show that the Insight and Prius are two different classes of vehicles and don't directly compete despite the media hype. This also means that Toyota USA has no reason to hold the 3G Prius pricing to 2G levels to compete with the Insight.

The Insight is more of a threat to Corolla sales than Prius sales.

 

The MSRP for 10 Corolla starts at $16.2 to $17.7.
The big Insight will start at $18.K to $21K.

They are in different price group. I think the big Insight is more a competitor in the hybrid arena for those who wants a lower cost vehicle and overall better cost of ownership than the Prius.

 

Toyota has 5 trims of Corollas that start from $16,150 to $20,050: Comparator - Features The Insight should be $18K to $22K.
Yes, you can get a Corolla Base for $16,150. But if you add:

• Automatic Transmission
• Power Windows
• Power Door Locks

Now you are up to the Corolla LE and $16,750. Do you buy the Corolla that gets EPA 30 mpg combined or the Insight that gets an EPA 41 mpg combined for only $1,250 more? That really depends on what a buyer wants and values in a car.

I see the $20,000 mark as a psychological barrier that will keep the Insight competing with the Corolla, Civic, Fit, Scions, Sentra, Focus, Cobalt, etc not $23K plus hybrids. I don't see people shopping for a mid-size car buying a compact or those looking in the $23K - $28K range dropping into the $18K to $22K range. The Insight will steal some sales from the Civic Hybrid since they are on the same dealer lot. Some early Insight buyers might buy a left-over 2009 Prius due to a discount. However, going forward I just don't see the Insight stealing many sales from the other hybrid cars. To me the gap in price is too large.

 

With the market so slow, I already see base Corolla in the very low $14k.

With the Insight being new, I doubt it can reduce $2k under MSRP any time soon.

Like most stupid magazine writers says... it will take 15 years to recover the price difference.

 

The insight is missing the Toyota badge, very important to me.

 

So will the G3 Series I be the Insight killer?