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PHEV mod under way, Bristol, UK.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by aminorjourney, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    That would be awesome, but I don't think they're interested. I did make contact with them about a year ago. Maybe I should try again...
     
  2. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    so far i now
    the BMS+ lets the SOC go down to 10-20% and with your charger it wil be around 80-85% charged.
    so alot lower then 30%
    but check this with norm to be sure!
     
  3. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Flying,

    I'm certainly not going that low - because I only use the Auto-Part mode :) I'm not sure what SOC that is though, but figure it's somewhere around 30%... :/ Although I may be wrong, of course.

    Do you use Auto-Full?

    What's your EV range?

    Nikki.
     
  4. KV55

    KV55 Member

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    Hello Nikki
    Great news and well done indeed. Nice video too although you ought to get a camera man/woman or two extra arms :) Good luck with the 100mpg.
    Mark
     
  5. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Mark,

    I will indeed do a better video when it's all finished! :)

    Fuel economy as of just now has reached 88.1 mpg (UK).

    [​IMG]

    It's really nice to pull up at home at plug in... Even if I haven't yet made a plug in port and I'm having to sneak the cable through the boot...

    [​IMG]


    Mark, I'll be bringing Velma to the BEVOB meet on Friday night. 7pm at the Beaufort arms (By Parkway Station). You're welcome to join us!
     
  6. KV55

    KV55 Member

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    I'm on 59mpg over 360 miles so 88 is brilliant. Do you have a feel for the optimum travel distance with your new set up and any idea how the batteries will effect longer drives - effectively without the mains supply (I know too many questions too soon)?
    BEVOB meeting noted, although odds are against me at the moment.
     
  7. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    On Mondays and Tuesdays I make short trips, so fuel economy is at it's best. Wednesdays I go to Wells, which is about a 50 mile round trip. My mileage is completely hammered at the end of the trip. I would estimate the ideal EV range to be 10-15 miles (15 if I drive in EV mode and only go sub 30 mph, 10 ish if I use stealth mode). The ideal PHEV extended range I think is about 25 -30 miles with careful driving.

    With longer drives I can use regen much more effectively. There's a huge set of hills on a Friday that I drive down. Even if my pack is near empty I can regen enough power to then drive around Bath. previously to the conversion I could only make it about half-way down the hills before the engine came on and the prius desperately started to loose the excess power.

    I'll see you at some point hopefully and I'll let you have a drive!

    Nikki.

    P.S. I'm now up to 91.2 mpg! Yay!
     
  8. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    congrats on your progress!! i am glad to hear that local businesses are seeing the need to provide plug in stations. i plug in as much as possible as well simply to let others know that there are other options available and to encourage others to provide them.
     
  9. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Bad news folks,

    One of my battery packs (the one out of the flood damaged prius) went bang this evening.

    I was just about to head out and noticed that one of the packs in my car wasn't looking right. It had battery cells spread over the floor!

    It looks intially as if the pack failed due to a short in the pack caused by previous damage to the pack prior to me installing it. The scrap yard I'd purchased it from had assured me the pack hadn't been submerged but looking at it in retrospect I suspect it had been water damaged and that had caused a short in a few cells - causing the whole thing to overheat suddenly.

    The other two packs, the second additional one and the original OEM one, show no sign of overheating or overcharging and were just at the right temperature and voltage (20 degree C or under).

    I've got my eye on a replacement pack and hope to be back on the road to PHEV goodness soon. I've got the bug and hope to fix everything soon. I spent most of the evening feeling really lousy and stupid, wondering what I'd done to cause it - but then when I realised which battery had blown and why - well things felt better.

    For the time being the car is back to being a regular hybrid - I don't want to jeapordise the other battery by asking it to do extra work.


    Watch this space!

    Nikki.
     
  10. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Another update.

    I'm home sick today but spent a few minutes outside to look at the destroyed battery. The two cells which hadn't expanded were shorted out (I suspect an internal short as they had 0V at their ends) I will measure cell resistance at some point too.

    Obviously, with this failure there's absolutely no reason why the battery would have behaved normally. The moral? Check EACH battery voltage and resistance before starting your conversion!

    I've got another battery which is being looked at at the moment. Hopefully I'll have a replacement pretty soon.

    The second battery is fine - it looks great and each cell pack is happily at 8V, giving a total pack voltage of 224V volts.

    The pack in the Prius (the original one) is functioning fine and isn't hot. I'll be back to normal Prius operation for a few weeks until I've had a chance to fix the battery situation. But I hope to not give up. I felt a right fool last night, but decided that I'd got so far that it would be silly to give up!

    Nikki.
     
  11. KV55

    KV55 Member

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    Oh no, I feel the dissapointment. From memory the flooded pack was the first one from Cornwall, and it was the other one (fire damage?) that was originally the concern. I am glad you have identified the likely problem and with 91mpg recorded that magic 100 must be in reach so I am glad you are staying with the project.
    Thanks for the earlier feedback on the distances, 25 miles is certainly very practical and the extra capacity on long downhill stretches is great.
     
  12. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Thanks Mark.

    It really was a tough decision to keep with the project. I felt very disheartened last night. I am only a musician, not an electrical engineer. However, I've always been someone who HAS to understand how things work and I've always had a really avid interest in all things electrical. So I hope I can dust myself off and keep going.

    I had a conversation today with a scapyard who wanted to charge me £500 for a pack - I told them I'd buy it for no more than £300 if they threw in a few extras I needed. Either that, or shove the battery on their shelves and watch it deteriorate and loose shape...

    Nikki.
     
  13. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Hi Nikki,
    It's sad to hear the story.

    We know Prius BMS monitors the voltage and the SOC on every two NiMH modules and it reports warnings if they are out of specification.
    How does your £300 BMS+ manage your packs?

    Ken@Japan
     
  14. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Hi Ken,

    The description of what the BMS + does is here: blank

    It does not replace the OEM BMS functionality, but of course the only pack with the original BMS is the original battery. The aux packs did not have them.

    I wonder if a future plan would be to monitor each pack pair voltage more closely?

    I am certainly going to implement some forced air cooling on the packs.

    Regards,

    Nikki
     
  15. KV55

    KV55 Member

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    Hello Nikki

    Most of the BMS+ information went over my head (no surprises). Are you now taking a safety first approach to the battery cooling, the webpage said the batteries would run cooler than stock presumably due to the wider spread of current draw.

    These things are without doubt complex and I'd say you were a very good electrical engineer, but I can't vouch for your music :D The problem was that particular battery pack and not your implementation.

    Mark
     
  16. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    Better next time to open up the added packs and the install them in to the prius and connect the powerlines and then the fuses.
    put the prius in ready mode so there is 1 to 2 amps current draw from the packs.


    then measure each cell with the voltage is under current draw

    write this done and post them here..

    then you can find any cells that are BAD. i a easy way

    also after a while of phev use you can do this test again and see what the state is from you packs

    do this after a full charge and maybe also after a full depleting drive.

    of course i dont have to tell you to be carefull and where the high voltage gloves
     
  17. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Hi Nikki,
    Thank you for the link.

    I see the BMS+ does not monitor the external pack's health at all.
    It just works as a CAN message translator sending fake CAN messages from the Prius standard BMS to the Hybrid ECU for the PHEV mode.

    Ken@Japan
     
  18. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    yes ken

    that you did not see that website before?
    canview and hybrideinterfaces website is really famous i think for the real diehard prius owners.

    but the OEM still manages the OEM pack and the theory is that you add identical packs and so the add packs are charged in the same way.

    the OEM bms only sends message's to increase or decrease the voltage and amps and SOC.
    no cell health is controlled only monitored as you now.
     
  19. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Again, the Prius BMS monitors the voltage and the SOC on every two NiMH modules and it reports warnings if they are out of specification, then we know the further inspection is required on the standard battery pack.

    The BMS+ doesn't do that.
    The naming, "BMS+", is not telling us the function, I think(my personal opinion).
    The naming should be "BMS-" or "BMS faker". :)

    Ken@Japan
     
  20. aminorjourney

    aminorjourney Mum to two prius!

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    Ken,

    Norm has done a fantastic job designing and building the BMS+ and I'm one very happy customer.
    The failure I suffered was NOT due to his device - it worked perfectly! The failure was down to my own stupidity and insufficient checking of the state of the battery before adding it to the car. I also failed to provide adequate cooling - I shall not be making the same mistake again!

    But let's not say nasty things about Norm's stuff eh? I think his kit is excellent and does exactly what it's meant to do! :)

    Nikki.