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Toyota/Panasonic EV - Lithium Ion production in late 2009

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Eric Nothman, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. Eric Nothman

    Eric Nothman Prius owner

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  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    This is beginning to get very interesting...
     
  3. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    The facts:

    Toyota will be releasing a PHEV Prius to fleet numbers in small volumes by the end of this year. I read somewhere that Europe will be getting about 250 of them.

    Now that Panasonic will start manufacturing Lithium batteries at the end of this year, does that also mean that they will move more quickly from releasing the PHEV to regular customers?

    Or are they simply planning on starting to use Lithium batteries instead of NiMH batteries as they have finally reached the point where the performance, reliability and price tips the scales in their favor?

    Or both?
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    We know about the very limited number of fleet-only PHEVs, it's my understanding that those will be modified 2G prius, not the 2010.
    But full fledged, scaled up, manufacture of Li suggests something bigger if you ask me. We may not see them installed right away, but it may well be sooner than 2012 as many are currently speculating.
     
  5. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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    It's important to have a broad perspective in the auto business - tunnel-vision has been one of the biggest criticism of the American carmakers. But seeing beyond the trees of economic meltdown to view the forest of the future industry is easier said than done. Toyota, however, is demonstrating its aplomb by moving forward with a plan to bring 150 plug-in hybrids to Europe this year.

    Another 350 of the cars will follow in 2010, as the company ramps up for production of a pure lithium-ion battery electric vehicle by 2012. "We have to look beyond the current financial crisis. We have to focus on r&d for today and the future," Toyota Europe CEO Tadashi Aarashima told Automotive News in Geneva.

    Diesel is already a very popular fuel in Europe, and it has shown it can offer similar fuel efficiency figures to hybrids - in some cases, even better. But Toyota is not focusing on diesel in Europe or elsewhere, seeing hybrid tech as the way forward.

    Emissions rules, fuel pricing and technology cost are all pointing toward hybrid success in the future, says Arashima.

    The plug-in Prius being tested in the UK and elsewhere are averaging 65mpg in the combined cycle. That's a 30% improvement over the standard 2010 Prius, recently certified as the most efficient hybrid in America. On the other hand, some are arguing plug-in hybrids may be too expensive to justify, though Toyota's tack seems to be headed in the right direction.

    The 150 plug-ins headed to Europe will be complemented by another 150 already planned for the U.S. in 2009.

    Toyota preps 150 plug-in Prius hybrids for Europe - [Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid] - MotorAuthority - Car news, reviews, spy shots
     
  6. Nevillewc

    Nevillewc New Member

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    The press release on 2010 models and options had models II to V
    That would imply there is a model 1 that will be released later.
    Could Prius model 1 be a plug in using a smaller lighter body?
     
  7. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Very unlikely based upon how Toyota has done things in the past.
     
  8. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Evan,

    Those plug-ins are indeed the next generation 2010 Prius Plug-in, per Irv Miller.

    TOYOTA OPEN ROAD BLOG: Irv?s Sheet: Prius Plug-In MPG Not Yet Available
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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  10. joe1347

    joe1347 Active Member

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    Toyota - unlike the idiots managing GM - understands that incremental product improvements win in the long run. Possibly GM will be able to hit a home run with the Volt and be able to deliver an affordable PHEV40 - in volume - before ever manufacturing a high mileage hybrid (i.e., a Prius competitor). But, more than likely, the Volt will be very expensive and GM will continue to beg the US Government for handouts to help even sell a few Volts. Meanwhile, Toyota will continue to it's march toward complete dominance and deliver - in volume - a low cost short range plug-in Prius as the initial product. Possibly only a PHEV10 and then after making a short-range plug-in hybrid - gradually increase the range as battery tech improves and economies of scale for high (battery) production volume kick in. Even better for Toyota, news of drivers that bought those 'lousy' first gen PHEV10 Prius's who get 80mpg will gradually spread and help build (massive) demand as well as acceptance. Meanwhile, GM will be still be promising to deliver a Volt if they only can get another $25 Billion handout.
     
  11. Eric Nothman

    Eric Nothman Prius owner

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    Evan,

    There was an announcement last October (2008) indicating plans to manufacture 1 million NiMH batteries in 2010, and full scale Lithium Ion production.

    "Full-scale production of lithium-ion batteries would start in 2010, Toyota said on Wednesday, declining to disclose planned output capacity."

    Here is the link:

    Toyota building better batteries in push for more electric cars

    To me the recent reconfirmation for Lithium Ion production indicates they have confidence the battery chemistry, packaging, controlling, cooling, etc. will work. In other news reports they communicated that for them (Toyota) a new battery technology would need to last the life of the car - so to be this far along is impressive and exciting.

    Eric