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BMW F1 to use hybrid technology (!)

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Ichiro, May 30, 2008.

  1. Ichiro

    Ichiro Member

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    BMW Formula One Car To Use Hybrid Technology - WSJ.com

    :humble::gossip:
     
  2. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    I am a regular F1 fan, and I have been hearing for quite a while now that F1 was going to implement hybrid and other alternative technologies.
    In 2007, in LMP1 Le Mans, Audi's famous R10 TDI won the series on biodiesel. Whether we think biodiesel is the future or not, we must give them credit for implementing a potential alternative fuel.

    At first, I was very concerned that this would slow down the vehicles more than speeding them up, but after reading the article last week about Volvo's concept car that has "huge" motors/generators on each wheel and can exert 300bhp of stopping force with the generators alone, I realized the benefit this can potentially have.

    "The team is responding to new rules presented in March by Formula One's governing body, the F.I.A., which will allow Formula One teams to boost the power of their cars using fuel-saving -- including hybrid -- technologies."

    "The FIA says it issued the rules to make new fuel-saving technologies the only way that Formula One teams can increase the power of their engines, giving a boost to research into technologies that can be used in the broader car industry"

    "Under the new rules, auto makers can add an electric motor to provide as many as 60 kilowatts of electric power for a period of as long as six seconds at a time, which translates to about 80 extra horsepower, the BMW spokesman said."

    80? That's it? I am skeptical (upon first impression) as to whether that will even offset the weight of the battery pack and electric motor(s). Keep reading...

    "That is because the current minimum weight allowed for a car and driver is about 1,331 pounds. Because of advances in lightweight-construction methods, Formula One cars are often now lighter than the minimum weight limit, forcing some of the auto manufacturers to add as many as 110 pounds of ballast weight to their cars. The hybrid technology being tested at BMW is likely to weigh less than 110 pounds"

    "BMW is currently experimenting with individual components including lithium-ion batteries and supercapacitors, and plans to have a hybrid car ready for testing this summer, according to the company."
    :thumb:
    .
     
  3. clett

    clett New Member

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    Most teams will be using hydralic accumulators or flywheels for the first season (2009).

    The really interesting thing will be the allowance of waste-heat recovery from exhaust gases from (I think?) 2010.
     
  4. Mjolinor

    Mjolinor New Member

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  5. clett

    clett New Member

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    I was wrong! Most teams are actually going with electrical systems this year.The idea is that the maximum permitted KERS output will increase from 60 kW this year to 100 kW next year and then 200 kW.
     
  6. Mike Dimmick

    Mike Dimmick Active Member

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    I think Williams are going with a flywheel system, but everyone else is electric. McLaren think they may be able to use theirs in the first race, but most others will introduce it during the season.

    Still, this is not true hybridisation - it's not done to save fuel, it's to provide a 'push to pass' feature; F1 is notorious for the inability of clearly faster cars to overtake. The aerodynamics of the last few years are incredibly sensitive to turbulent air - such as the wake coming off the car in front - which causes a following car to lose grip. A lot of aerodynamic devices have been banned this year, the rear diffuser must be smaller, higher up, and further toward the front of the car, and the rear wing smaller, higher, and with fewer blades. The front wing becomes lower and wider (increasing drag), and the driver can adjust its balance twice per lap. The raw mechanical grip has been improved by a return to slick tyres (formerly grooved).
     
  7. ronhowell

    ronhowell Active Member

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    This clearly illustrates the idiocy of staying this close to the edge of the air, which old pilots usually define as where the air meets terra-firma, of things attached to it.
    These F1 cars are basically flying machines at modern speeds, where aerodynamics become as important, if not more so, than physical road grip.
    Flying at these speeds this close to the edge of the air is definitely not for the faint-hearted!
     
  8. grand total

    grand total Member

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    This is actually deliberate on the part of the teams. They are happy to add lead ballast because they can add it exactly where they want it - low down. I imagine the same will be true of their battery packs.
     
  9. ronhowell

    ronhowell Active Member

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    They have to add ballast?! That is so dumb; dead, non-functional lead weight has to be added back in to conform to the rules!

    At least make it functional in some way.
     
  10. asjoseph

    asjoseph Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile

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    ... carbon black, lack thereof?

    Got a bad feeling about this. Call 'um like I see 'um... Hope I'm wrong. This is a really-really bad idea, for F1.

    This particular technology is something which best trickles up. Not down. As it is, FOTA has way-way-way too much on its plate, to be tinkering around with KERS.

    As it is, F1 can't manage a banked turn at Indianapolis, much less complexity of a fully blown Hybrid platform. FOTA collectively don't merit human capital to safely manage this particular technology.

    Two-compound tire race rule in F1, I suspect tire technology is just not there. I have no idea what carbon black content Bridgestone engineers into their racing tires. 5 gets you 10, it's slim to none. Optimized to reduce reciprocating mass, F1 race tyres are engineered for a neat, ginger, dainty 50 mile waltz, on the dance floor. Maximum. Doing a KERS, I worry those washed-up aerospace engineers, in tandem with those egomaniacle F1 designers are going to touch off the mother of all pit lane fires.

    F1 tires are not optimized to suppress static electricity.

    They had this problem licked, circa the late 1950s; early 1960s. You're supposed to be able to touch your car and, under no circumstance, ever feel static shock. Even in contemporary passenger cars, I'm hearing evermore increasing frequency, motorists complaining, about static shock (e.g., cheap tires).

    Not good... I suspect all tiremakes have collectively been slacking off, on carbon black content. If this phenomena trickes up to F1, in KERS's wake... KA-BLAM!

    Best place to develop this technology, is the passenger car. Not the racing car. Certainly not at commercial race facilities, high-test aviation fuels expanding in Bernie's 12 huge, antiquated fueling rigs, hundreds of millionaires just above Flavio's and Luca's pit boxes, picnicking on crackers, cucumber sandwiches and caviar behind the glass in Bernie's corporate suites -- they are going to be toasted like Kellog's Pop Tarts.

    KERS, in tandem with those antiquated refueling rigs, the 2009 F1 season shapes up to be -- incendiary.


    Regards,
    - Samuel


    | '04 Prius | '07 Outback |
    | '88 MR2 Supercharged |


    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
     
  11. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    I like the move.
    I say bring back fuel restrictions.
     
  12. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    only bad idea about it is that they limited technology so much that Toyota didnt even bother with their own system but purchased one from Magnuti Marelli.

    One of Toyota's head engineers was quted that what they are putting in F1 in 2009, is far less advanced than Prius, let alone hybrid sports car that won recent 24hour race in Japan.

    I believe they are allowed to capture only 24% of braking energy..

    This was probably done to not let Japanese get ahead of rest of the pack so everyone has outside company designing theirs.